Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R613 road (South Africa)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Arbitrarily0  ( talk ) 03:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

R613 road (South Africa)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The route is inexistent; All relevant geographical sources, including the "official document" which is used as a "citation" in the article, do not list this "numbered route"; It also can't be found on any GPS map. GeographicAccountant (talk) 18:55, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and South Africa. Skynxnex (talk) 19:07, 24 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment If this route is nonexistent, it should be speedy deleted per WP:G3 as a hoax. Waddles 🗩 🖉 22:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:00, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete For the initial reason stated above; this road designation clearly does not exist in South Africa. GeographicAccountant (talk) 14:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Regional routes are clearly notable, however Google Maps comes up with nothing so this one probably doesn't exist. --Rschen7754 00:39, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Striking while more investigation is done. --Rschen7754 23:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Keep/possible redirect to M13 (Durban) The fact that routes R612 and R614 exist makes me wary about the claim that R613 doesn’t, and deletion. Google Books searching for "R613 route durban" does return a snippet from "Towards a Plan for Kwazulu: The written report - Page 54 (1978)". Another source mentions it as well, but I'm not sure where it comes from it could be WP:CIRCULAR. Maybe a bit more digging is in order? Also, it may be an alias for the R103. UPDATE: Open Street Map marks it as an alias for the M13, which is indeed the R103 in Durban, if I'm not mistaken. The OSM edit states "M13 in Durban used to have the ref "R613" until the mid 1990s". I know OSM is user generated, but it's a trail that should be followed before we delete. UPDATE 2: Here's a place that refers to the R613 in the right general area, in directions. And another Here's a bus route description from 2020 that mentions the R613 from the Provincial Gazette  and another ref. 2018 source from Eskom that mentions the road I think we can confidently say it does exist....the question is whether it's another name for the M13, or an extension of that route, or some other route. Maybe it was renamed as part of the M13 when the Durban metro council was created in the mid-90s? (speculation). UPDATE3 Another ref from 1995  Park3r (talk)
 * Comment So, Park3r, you are saying that the "R613" was once the designation of the "old main road" from Durban towards Pietermaritzburg? That explains the writing in the article, as there is certainly no other road at all that connects "Durban" with "Camperdown" apart from the R103 and the N3. Certainly, typing "R613, Durban" on OpenStreetMap brings the M13 Highway as a result; Some of these citations you have mentioned also show that the "R613" represents the M13 Highway; But we need to remember that the M13 ends in "Outer West Durban" (Assagay) & from there, the "R103" (&/or N3) continues the route to "Camperdown". So, we can't say that the R613 represents "only the M13" if indeed that route reaches all the way to Camperdown (safe to say M13 AND R103). Even the GPS states that the street name "Old Main Road" is used on the "R103" (not exactly the M13). That "Inanda Dam Resort" citation certainly proves that the "R613" designation is used on the "R103" route. So, these few citations have proven collectively that the "R613" designation is known and that it is used on "two current routes" (BOTH the M13 Highway and the R103 Road). It is used for the entire freeway section of the M13 (King Cetshwayo Highway), as well as for the R103 (Old Main Road) from Gillitts/Hillcrest north-westwards past Camperdown. Now, since we have confirmed that the "R613" is used in some Sources, we need to decide which article favours being "redirected to" between the M13 Highway and the R103 Road articles. GeographicAccountant (talk) 22:19, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect As per my previous comment, I withdraw the idea of "deleting the article" & I suggest we now "Redirect" to one of these two articles (M13 and R103). I do not know yet which article to recommend "redirecting to" between the two. GeographicAccountant (talk) 22:19, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * If we ascertain from a WP:RS that the route is a combination of sections of the R103 and the M13, then the article can be kept intact, and mention this fact. Park3r (talk) 12:50, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 03:07, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Well, I am struggling to find any proper source to preserve this article & what is written in it. I am still prone to recommending a redirect to one of the two articles. Has anybody found a proper source? GeographicAccountant (talk) 14:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If it meets notability via reliable source (which it clearly does via government gazettes and the like) then this should be closed as a keep, and the a potential redirect can be dealt with as an editorial decision. Park3r (talk) 02:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.