Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R830 road


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The question is basically "Are Irish R roads inherently notable?" Without offering my opinion on this subject (it's more a question for WikiProject Roads), the consensus here seems to be that they are. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 22:30, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

R830 road

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No indication this road is notable. There are a lot of these. The references are all almanacs, and nothing at this point in the article indicates a regional road is notable. Shadowjams (talk) 09:56, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep: The R830 road is part of a well-established and useful series of articles on Irish regional roads. This R830 initial entry is a stub awaiting additional information to round it out; for now, it is a starter article. The reference, above, to almanacs appears to be a misuse of the term; what is meant by it is unknown as none of the references used are almanacs at all; and, indeed, almanacs are valid references,  even if none has been cited for the R830. This appears to be a red herring.


 * The following pages list, and link to, many existing Wikipedia articles on regional roads in various countries:


 * Regional road
 * Category:Roads in County Dublin
 * Category:Roads in the Republic of Ireland by county
 * List of numbered roads in York Region
 * List of Regional Roads in South Africa


 * Scroll down through the pages linked, above, to see the very comprehensive lists of similar, established Wikipedia articles, of which the R830 road is but one example.


 * --O&#39;Dea (talk) 11:15, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It might be one example, but it seems to be one example of many roads that don't show the notability of the subject. To show notability you can't simply point to other articles, or say that it's useful. Likewise your argument below about the number of google hits is useless unless the quality of the results is considered (and they seem mostly just to consist of addresses). If it is waiting for additional information then can you give us some idea of what that is likely to be? Given that pretty much all of the regional road articles do not have third party reliable sources giving significant coverage it is difficult to envisage what sort of further information you expect to be forthcoming. Quantpole (talk) 07:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions.  —Snappy (talk) 11:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.  —Snappy (talk) 11:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - The real question is not whether R830 is notable is whether Regional roads in Ireland are notable. In the Republic of Ireland, the roads are in order of importance: Motorway, National Primary, National Secondary, Regional and Local. It would be safe to assume that all the motorways and national roads are notable and that the Local roads (of which there are thousands) are NOT notable. This leaves the approximately 700 Regional roads in Ireland. There are no roads related notability guidelines on wikipedia so WP:GNG must apply. The roads are verifiable, and for media coverage and sources, they are roads so generally its in the form of directions, so for the R830: . The roads are all mapped as well. Snappy (talk) 11:52, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. Snappy is correct is saying that the GNG apply but I really don't understand the source they have presented. All that is is some directions on a company website that happen to mention this road. This is surely the epitome of a "trivial mention". To show notability we need significant coverage, and I just don't see it. Quantpole (talk) 14:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment: a) While Google search results do not in themselves confer notability, an apparent relative poverty of such results can encourage the perception that a subject is unimportant. Searching for the R830 road in Google does not yield many results because the route is more commonly referred to by any of its three constituent parts, Kill Lane, Kill Avenue, or York Street. Searches for these names yield many more results — 90,800 — a considerable improvement on searches for the official R830 name.

"Kill Lane" Dublin (10,500 results) +  "Kill Avenue" Dublin (20,300 results)  +  "York Road" Dublin (60,000 results) = total R830 road Google results (90,800).

b) The online Irish Statute Book (irishstatutebook.ie), where laws and other state legal documents are available, notes that the R830 (as Kill Lane, etc.) acts as an important administrative boundary between constituent components of the local District Electoral Division. Each of the three constituent roads draws several mentions in the Statutory Instrument No. 17/1971 — Dublin County (District Electoral Divisions) Regulations, 1971. --O&#39;Dea (talk) 15:40, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you go to the last page of those results you will in fact find 342, 423 and 484 = 1249 results, but even that is an overestimate as many of those results are not about those roads. I have also not seen any results specifically about the road - most are simply addresses for houses and businesses, and we could find similar results for any road in the world.
 * In terms of the administrative boundary - that's all the source says it is. There is nothing unusual or worthy of note about being an administrative boundary, and again, many roads are used as boundaries.
 * I can understand your concern about this AfD, as there are a lot of articles in Category:Regional Road. I haven't come across one yet which particularly demonstrates any sort of notability. Maybe a single AfD isn't the place to discuss this however, due to the large number of articles potentially affected. Quantpole (talk) 07:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a widespread problem, and maybe anecdotally, I've noticed a lot more of it in the last few weeks. Shadowjams (talk) 09:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, not sure what you mean. (It doesn't look like regional road articles have been up for deletion recently: WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ireland/archive). Quantpole (talk) 11:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * They haven't all been at AfD, and they certainly haven't been restricted to Ireland. There have been a lot of road articles created recently of questionable notability. I don't see any link between the creators, but I've noticed an uptick. Not sure if it's just my own confirmation bias or if it's part of something else. Shadowjams (talk) 21:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. It's probably because people have run out of major roads to create. Quantpole (talk) 08:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep per O'Dea.Red Hurley (talk) 10:58, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per arguments above to keep. Plus, to Shadowjams who said, "If you go to the last page of those results you will in fact find...". The fact is that the Google search imposes its own limit on result pages initially shown; in fact it finds more search results than appear in that first-shown list, but if you click on the link to see more on the last page you referred to, there are many more hits there than your presentation of the facts suggests. Ischium (talk) 10:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That was me actually. Yes there are more results, but as google says, "they are very similar to the ones already displayed". Anyway, even if it was only about a 1000 results in total that wouldn't be a problem if those results were useful in determining notability, which they don't appear to be. Quantpole (talk) 11:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. Is anyone going to come up with some sources here or is this just a vote? Quantpole (talk) 11:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.