Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/REM (Real Estate Magazine)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep.  - 2/0 (cont.) 23:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

REM (Real Estate Magazine)

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Non-notable trade publication. Pontificalibus (talk) 18:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Circulation of over 40,000 suggests it might be notable, but since article appears to be created by family member of magazine owner, i'm not going to do their work for them. -- Willmolls:  You need to find coverage of this publication in other sources, like newspapers, news reports, books, etc., see, e.g., Red Pepper (magazine) which was nominated for deletion earlier this week, and was saved after it was improved (more discussion here: Articles_for_deletion/Red_Pepper_(magazine).  Coverage like that would show this publication is notable. If you need more help understanding wikipedia's policies, come to my talk page and I'll try to help If I can.--Milowent (talk) 21:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Milowent. Yes, I have a personal stake in the article as it's a family business, but I'd prefer that wasn't a known factor here (because your only evidence is my user name, which is an embarrassing giveaway :-P). For the record I'm not entirely new to Wikipedia, I'm aware of its policies, and I feel I've followed the guidelines thoroughly. I'm not writing this article for the novelty of it, I'm writing it because I feel this is a notable subject - and me having a personal stake in the article shouldn't be a reason its deleted if it hasn't affected the article's quality. I've gone about this as objectively as possible.

I'm afraid unlike the "Red Pepper", I'm unlikely to find any secondary news articles about a Canadian trade publication, especially in a UK daily. However, I would argue this is a notable subject as it is the only trade journal serving the real estate industry in Canada, it has existed for 20 years, and it circulates nationally. Any article on a Canadian real estate subject would likely cite this magazine, but it is more difficult to find media talking about other media, especially in the case of a trade journal (rather than simply a general magazine). Finding secondary sources will not be as easy as it was for the Red Pepper.

Some examples of other trade journals that are (apparently) considered notable (in that they haven't been nominated for deletion): Playback (magazine), The Engineer (magazine). They also cite the primary source, and (unlike this page) have no secondary sources. However they still exist as Wikipedia articles (likely) because they are considered notable in their industry. There should be no double standard in deleting this article, then.

That said, I will continue to search for secondary sources (though it should be noted I have already listed some). Given the evidence I've laid out I don't think there is enough of an argument for deleting this article. --Willmolls (talk) 21:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: Thanks to my Lexis-Nexis account with Ryerson University I've found an article citing REM from the Toronto Star. I'll add it now. Thanks for your help guys! Willmolls (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Now that I've added a Toronto Star article citing REM, can we officially call this subject notable and end this deletion discussion? --Willmolls (talk) 22:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite 10:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep: I do see references to this magazine out there (though not in-depth profiles, which is often the case for this type of publication), and the circulation information seems legit.--Milowent (talk) 13:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete' The article doesn't make any effort to assert notability which meet WP:NME, and a brief google doesn't suggest that that it does. Guinness (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As per WP:NME for "Newspapers, magazines and journals", Real Estate Magazine qualifies under this attribute: "significant publications in ethnic and other non-trivial niche markets". The Canadian real estate industry is a non-trivial niche market, and this publication is significant in that it is the only of its kind to serve it. Yet again I have to refer you to Playback (magazine), The Engineer (magazine) as examples of articles that are considered notable for the same reason.--Willmolls (talk) 21:06, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that real estate could be considered to be a "niche" market in any country. For that to apply, there would have to be some qualification such as "listed buildings," or "ex-celebrity-homes."  Guinness (talk) 17:28, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.