Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Racist music (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. There is no solution here. Tokyogirl is indeed on to something, but Boleyn's wishy-washy answer actually exemplifies what the problem is here. Editors will have so solve this the old-fashioned way. Drmies (talk) 02:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Racist music
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This page serves no useful purpose. The redirect to racism is inadequate, but there are no other Wikipedia articles that would be more appropriate. The attempt at turning it into a disambiguation page was also inadequate, because it was not actually disambiguating anything. The original intent of this page, which was to only focus on white racist music, gave an incomplete picture and did not present a world view. It merely duplicated topics and content from Wikipedia articles about different kinds of white racist music. There is no evidence that this page will, or can be transformed into anything that lives up to its title or that is worthy of being a Wikipedia article or list. Also, no Wikipedia articles link to this page because the term racist music does not refer to anything specific. Spylab (talk) 01:48, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm not sure what to do with this. Perhaps it should be turned into a category for the articles listed. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 02:07, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not my preferred solution, but would be an acceptable alternative, provided that this title redirected to the new category. For example, as Music hardware redirects to Category:Music hardware. See Category:Redirects to category space for other examples of titles using that solution. I'd rather see someone expand this into an overview of the topic covering all genres, but am not making it a priority to do that myself. Wbm1058 (talk) 02:45, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * My first attempt at an article was a set index article, i.e., a music-related stub placed in Category:Sociological genres of music. After Spylab reverted me twice, with no edit summary and no engagement on the talk page, I tried compromising on a dab page. Perhaps, as that was my second best option, we could go with a set index instead. Wbm1058 (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, per discussion at Talk:Racist music. – Wbm1058 (talk) 02:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * regarding "no Wikipedia articles link to this page because the term racist music does not refer to anything specific." – No Wikipedia articles link to this page because Wikipedia articles are not supposed to link to disambiguation pages, and I fixed the links to the disambiguation (diff, diff, diff). Wbm1058 (talk) 02:33, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Strong delete The term racist music is no more defined than the terms racist film, racist television, racist art or racist literature. There have been examples of racism in all of of those fields in different times and locations throughout the world, but that does not mean that adding the adjective racist in front of those fields describes a specific genre or phenomenon. To try to cobble together an article or list under those titles is to engage in original research. All of the topics that have been listed or discussed in the various versions of this page are already at the article white power music, where they rightly belong. Spylab (talk) 03:01, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Question: How about we re-title the article to something like List of music considered racist? That would not only be in keeping with articles such as List of films considered the worst, List of sitcoms notable for negative reception, List of television series considered the worst, and List of music considered the worst (among others in Category:Lists of worsts), but it would also allow the article to grow beyond what it is now. The page would, of course, require that the music in question have been specifically cited as racist in various reliable sources in order to be listed on the page. This would take care of the original research angle for the most part. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   03:30, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Basically, my reason for suggesting the change of name as opposed to just outright deleting it is that there are quite a few types of music and specific songs that have been considered to be racist and have been the subject of discussion on various reliable sources. I'm kind of actually thinking beyond just saying that this type of music or that type of music is racist, but about an article that would also encompass specific songs that have received controversy for lyrics that people think are racist. Royals (song) is a great example of this and even has an entire section devoted to this at Royals_(song). A page that would allow people to see various songs called this, as well as entire genres of music, definitely has value at Wikipedia. We just need to tweak the phrasing and content a little, is all. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   03:35, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Other songs that could fall into this page would be Dixie (song), Turkey in the Straw (pretty interesting back story to this one), Eeny, meeny, miny, moe, Pick a Bale of Cotton (see this article), and Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport. There are others out there- this is just what I could find using a quick Google search. This has the potential to be a fairly good resource. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   03:41, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, while yes- the songs I have listed here have been predominantly white-against-black examples of racism in songs, there's no reason why people can't add other songs that would be seen as racist against any other race or ethnicity. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   03:44, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Tokoyogirl179, above, is on to something.Cramyourspam (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. But then Spylab might want to move that to "List of music considered white power music". Just face it, as of now, "white power music", in its various forms, is the primary topic for "racist music". There is nothing stopping an editor from working to add more balance by adding sourced content about other forms of racist music. Perhaps one can find music in Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) where the black majority expresses racism towards the white minority. I don't know, but this is a place where I might look for other forms of racist music. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:48, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * This is definitely not a proper disambiguation page, per WP:DABCONCEPT. Somewhat along the lines of Tokoyogirl179's suggestion, I propose moving this to Racism in music and making it into an article describing the existence of racism in various genres of music, with due coverage to each. bd2412  T 15:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup, we've already been there. See Articles for deletion/Racism in music. But I can support this, with a redirect of racist music to that title. As I mentioned above, my first attempt at fixing this was a broad concept article stub. Wbm1058 (talk) 15:30, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment articles like this are usually trouble, in that, like inherently critical lists, they almost inevitably lead to POV pushing and BLP issues. This really isn't all that different from having an article named List of Known Bigots. Nwlaw63 (talk) 22:47, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * But somehow Wikipedia has managed to handle the "ill-defined" term "ethnic slur", which redirects to List of ethnic slurs. But we have trouble once slurs are set to music? Wbm1058 (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 16:16, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * delete if we have racist music all who perform it listen to it or buy it can be reliably sourced as racists. 107.77.75.22 (talk) 15:44, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Restructure / delete valid search term, but this in no way could meet the guidlines for a disambiguation page. Boleyn (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.