Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rafael Torres


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The delete arguments have made a more convincing case as to why the pertinent guidelines are not met. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 06:03, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Rafael Torres

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:CREATIVE. Overly promotional article created by a WP:SPA, very likely autobiographical or written by someone close to Mr. Torres, seeing as it's full of unsourced original research. Half of the sources do not mention him at all, and there are many claims of notability by association. Once you remove the promotional detail and name-dropping, there's nothing left of any substance.

Music-wise, Mr. Torres' two supposed claims to fame are the 1995 single "Put Down the Body" by Thierry and the 2000 single "Power" by Zelma Davis. On the former he is merely listed as co-writer and producer (indeed, the review of the single criticises the production, but this is conveniently ignored by the article creator); on the latter he just produced one of the remixes. Neither single charted anywhere, not even on Billboard's specialist charts – the claim of "Power" reaching number one on the Dance Sales chart is misleading, as it actually was the Maxi-Singles Breakout chart... in other words, the singles Billboard considered most likely to chart, given reports of sales, but which hadn't actually charted yet.

The animation award given while he worked at Urban Box Office Network is non-notable and was given purely for the animation content: Mr. Torres' music is not mentioned at all. The song for Picture This is a co-writing credit on a single song on the soundtrack of a straight-to-DVD movie. The song for The Next Three Days is also a co-writing credit on one song that features during the film, and is not included on the soundtrack album. In short, there is nothing to demonstrate Mr. Torres' notability in any of his fields. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

In response to above claim to not delete. Rafael Torres Writing/Production of the single Power did chart on the Billboard Dance charts at #43 As well, Rafael Torres has contributed music for theme for many notable award winning network tv shows such as big brother — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.114.76.178 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 21 March 2019 (UTC) — 75.114.76.178


 * As stated in my argument above, the Maxi-Singles Sales chart is not one of the main notable Billboard charts, and in any case simply being listed as writer and producer is not evidence of notability, we need in-depth sources that describe his involvement with the song. Please provide reliable sources that describe Mr. Torres' involvement in TV theme music in detail – iMDb is user-edited content and not acceptable as a source on Wikipedia. Richard3120 (talk) 15:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Please see reference noted Billboard Dance Charts - as you see the Single Power was listed on the Official Billboard Dance charts at #43 and remained on the charts for several weeks thereafter as found in later Billboard Magazine releases. Aside from the Sales charts as you noted. I think involvement as a writer/producer credit is evidence of notability.. Not all releases in the industry have in-depth sources of involvement. Also the Billboard write up of the single does go in depth about how the Latin Mixes produced by Rafael Torres was involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.114.76.178 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 21 March 2019 (UTC)


 * I repeat... the official Billboard dance chart is the Club Play chart in the left-hand column... the Maxi-Singles Sales chart is not considered a major Billboard specialist chart. The write-up of the single does not go into any depth at all about the Amp Latin mixes – the entire mention of them is "...the Amp Latin mix, whose Spanish guitar and salsa piano and rhythms will benefit from the recent Latin craze". That's it, and no mention of Mr. Torres in the review at all. "Not all releases in the industry have in-depth sources of involvement" – correct, which is why this single doesn't pass WP:NSONG. Richard3120 (talk) 17:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

If those charts were not a specialist chart for Billboard then why do they exist? If you see reference #2 you can clearly see Rafael Torres involvement in the Single.. It clearly states, Remixes Produced by Junior Vasquez and Rafael Torres. As well, the Amp Latin mix - Rafael Torres. Anyone reading would know its relating to Rafael Torres produced the Latin Mixes, which it does pass the WP:NSONG. Also the WP:SONG Requirements. #1 "Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries or reviews." This single POWER meets that. #2 Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. This SINGLE POWER was on the Billboard Sales Charts. Which again passes the WP:NSONG. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.114.76.178 (talk) 13:15, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
 * No, the Maxi-Singles Sales chart is not a significant national music chart - it's a sub-component chart of the Dance Club Play Chart, and therefore does not meet the criterion of being a significant chart. I'm not denying Mr. Torres produced a mix of the song - what I'm saying is that there are only 19 words written about it, none of which mention Mr. Torres, so there is no in-depth source discussing his involvement. Richard3120 (talk) 12:29, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep meets WP:GNG and sourced. If we think it is promotional it should be improved, not deleted Lubbad85 (talk) 01:21, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 * could you please show how this article passes any part of WP:GNG? And what sources do you propose to use to improve the article if there aren't any that pass WP:RS? Richard3120 (talk) 12:24, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 12:17, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

,  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.114.76.178 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 1 April 2019 (UTC)  — 75.114.76.178 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep meets WP:MUSICBIO Subject has released multiple albums on major or independent labels with years of being in business as stated in the WP:MUSICBIO guidelines. "1.Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)". Such as Abaco Music - A division of Imagem Music Group and Vanacore Music

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 17:00, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete for failing WP:MUSICBIO. Artists release albums, not producers/mixers. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:37, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep meets WP:MUSICBIO After reviewing above references, all credits on the albums show Mr. Torres as a writer, composer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TVFILMBIGFAN (talk • contribs) 12:39, 5 April 2019 (UTC)  — TVFILMBIGFAN (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * All that those four references immediately above show is that the albums exist, nothing else – there is no indication at all that they are in any way notable and pass WP:NALBUM, and they still don't show that Mr. Torres passes WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. And the fact that TVFILMBIGFAN and the IP 75.114.76.178 edit each other's posts makes me think that they are the same person, and therefore at least one of their "keep" votes above should be struck. Richard3120 (talk) 16:45, 5 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete It’s obvious when you look at this article for what it is that the assertion of notability is only connected to who he has allegedly worked with. Charts data certainly don’t create notability. Trillfendi (talk) 17:53, 7 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.