Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raj Narayan Dube


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  MBisanz  talk 01:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Raj Narayan Dube

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Sorry for the long read, but as you will see, this nomination requires a detailed explanation, because some news outlets have also fallen for this hoax.

This is a hoax, originally uncovered by French Wikipedia User:MelAntipam at Talk:Bombay_Talkies. For the uninitiated, here is a summary of that discussion:


 * Bombay Talkies is a historic Indian film studio that shut down in the 1950s. According to all reliable sources that have not fallen for this hoax (e.g. pre-2010 news stories, books etc.), this studio had only two founders: Himanshu Rai and Devika Rani.
 * In 2010 ("three years ago" from 2013), a hitherto unknown 'actor-writer-director' Abhay Kumar decided to launch a new production house.
 * That year, an anon IP user added the name "Rajnarayan Dube" to the list of founders in the Bombay Talkies article. Unfortunately, this change went unnoticed, and was replicated by blogs and mirrors that rely on Wikipedia for information.
 * In 2011, Abhay Kumar announced to media that the planned new studio would be a "revival" of the historic Bombay Talkies, which he claimed, was associated with his grandfather. Subsequently, his PR team created the website rajnarayandube.com (and also bombaytalkies.co, which expired a few days ago), which contains details of Raj Narayan Dube's purported role in Bombay Talkies. Since then, this claim has appeared in a few more news stories, which variously mention Raj Narayan Dube as the co-founder, co-owner or main financier of the Bombay Talkies and an important figure in Indian cinema.
 * In 2015, Abhay Kumar registered a new company under the name "The Bombay Talkies Studio", and announced to media that it was a continuation of the historic Bombay Talkies. This year, a user who is self-admittedly the "digital head at Bombay Talkies Studio" re-wrote the Bombay Talkies Wikipedia article to state that it was still functioning with Abhay Kumar as its owner. (These changes are now undone).

Why is this a hoax?


 * All the news stories that mention this guy are about the supposed "revival" of Bombay Talkies by Abhay Kumar, and presumably, rely on his account.
 * There is no mention of this name in any pre-2010 source as the founder / financier / co-owner of Bombay Talkies (or as a notable person in general), which is surprising for for someone who was supposedly a "Pillar of Indian Cinema"
 * Raj Narayan Dube
 * Raj Narayan Dubey
 * R N Dube
 * R N Dubey
 * Raj Dube
 * Raj Dubey
 * Rajnarayan Dubey
 * Rajnarayan Dube (there is one result dated "Mar 9, 1994" from mapsofindia.com, but please note that this is not date of the page's creation: It's part of "On this day: 9 March 1994" series, and mapsofindia.com routinely sources content from Wikipedia).
 * The logo of the historic Bombay Talkies that appears in these PR-like news stories is obviously fake. This fake logo contains a photograph of Raj Narayan Dube with the text "Est. 1934". The real logo of the Bombay Talkies (present in the current Wikipedia article) has a photograph of Himanshu Rai.
 * There are literally hundreds of books about Hindi (and Indian) cinema, and many of them mention Bombay Talkies, Himanshu Rai and Devika Rani. However, none of them mention this Dube guy. Only one book contains a cursory mention of him ("built by Himanshu Rai and Devika Rani,and financed by Rajnarayan Dube"). This book is from 2014 (Spot Girl, fiction), and its mention of Dube is obviously based on the Wikipedia article or news stories about the purported "revival" of Bombay Talkies by Abhay Kumar. utcursch &#124; talk 20:35, 2 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. utcursch &#124; talk 20:41, 2 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete - Per WP:G3. Not found in any independent source pre-2010. Not found in other wiki. Before being cleaned up, this page contained numerous errors and obviously false information. The sole purpose of this hoax is to provide free publicity to an actor and an upcoming movie. (I came up on this when working on these French pages: (1) and (2). Sorry if I had no right to participate to this debate, I'm not aware of the deletion rules on the English wiki) MelAntipam (talk) 00:37, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete As a hoax,although he might become notorious Atlantic306 (talk) 03:32, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as although this is not my familiar area (Indian cinema), this is certainly questionable. SwisterTwister   talk  06:46, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment: Fantastic job for this research. This AfD was a better read than most Bollywood FAs and FLs. But i have different doubt now. Although we  rely on reliable sources for information on WP cant we put this hoax as hoax in some of the article though no RS has ever called it so? Or else how will the wrong information already out on internet be stopped from spreading? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 16:25, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It's difficult to find a source stating that somebody does/did not exist :) I guess that all that can be done is to have a few sentences in the Bombay Talkies articles saying : "In the 2010s, Abhay Kumar, a would-be actor, spread a story saying that somebody called RN Dube was instrumental in the creation of Bombay Talkies . However, there is no reliable source confirming this information and even no source stating that RN Dube ever existed. In addition, several key details of the story are contradicted by Devika Rani's autobiography and Indian cinema historians. Furthermore, there is no official record of the company that would have provided RN Dube's wealth." MelAntipam (talk) 00:07, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Well yes, negation cant be proved. But i like the prose you proposed. In that case the article's history can be deleted leaving a locked redirect to Bombay Talkies. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Good catch. Yann (talk) 15:02, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Very strong delete Claiming as hoax is no small thing, but I have no time to check your apparently robust research.  Even of only half true this needs to be cleaned out.  Aoziwe (talk) 13:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.