Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ralph Gracie


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. J04n(talk page) 23:14, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Ralph Gracie

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MMA fighter who does not meet WP:NMMA with only two top tier fights. The sources given don't seem to show he meets WP:GNG, either. The only source that provides signficant coverage is bjjheroes.com and I don't know if that is a high quality source. The material there gives no additional claims of WP notability that aren't in the article and all the talk about his family members and who he's trained is just WP:NOTINHERITED.Mdtemp (talk) 21:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:59, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:59, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - He should pass WP:MANOTE with his BJJ titles listed on BJJ Heroes (which is fairly reliable IMO). However, more sourcing needs to be found about the tournaments for the article to meet WP:GNG. I'll hold off on a vote for the time being. Luchuslu (talk) 15:56, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Winning the Rio state championship does not meet the national or world championship levels given at WP:MANOTE and I didn't find significant independent coverage of him. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:26, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No. 4 in WP:MANOTE says repeat medalist in other significant tournaments are notable. I see four titles listed on BJJ Heroes, including two from Rio de Janeiro. BJJ titles in Brazil are certainly not given away like candy. Luchuslu (talk) 19:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think the titles he's won are sufficient--the Rio state championship is nice (though it's not on the national/world level), but I'm not sure the other Rio title means anything. The other two are from the Bank of Brazil Athletic Association and a tournament in Grajáu (which is a district in the city of Sao Paolo) and I don't see notability from them.  I'm waiting to see if other information gets added, but right now I don't see him meeting WP:MANOTE. Papaursa (talk) 00:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete - This one's fairly close, since he's only one fight away from passing WP:NMMA and he's not that far off from passing WP:MANOTE either, but ultimately he does fail both guidelines. I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt if he had some coverage, but there's almost nothing from independent sources, only three hits on Google News, none of which are about him.  I'd say he just misses. CaSJer (talk) 00:01, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've found many more than three independent refs, and input a number already.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - Fails WP:NMMA. IronKnuckle (talk) 19:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Even if Iron were an editor in good standing, which he is not (see below), his !vote would not carry weight. The subject need not meet NMMA -- whether he meets it or not is irrelevant, as long as he meets GNG.  Which he does.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: IronKnuckle is now indef blocked. Also, he has a history of socking.  Those who have familiarity with that approach to editing, and unearthing puppets, might keep that in mind as we look at contributions of others to AfDs upon which he !voted.--Epeefleche (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete- Same findings as CaSJer above. Notability isn't based on what might happen in a bit, and I can not find enough sources to qualify for right now.  Page can be recreated when he qualifies.Coffeepusher (talk) 14:23, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've found many more than three independent refs, and input a number already.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment. I've added a number of refs.  There are many more -- but I got bored for the moment.  He is covered a great deal in BBM, but also in the MMA Encyclopedia and other books.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:09, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - With the addition of these references, in particular the ones from Black Belt Magazine, I'd have to say he passes based on WP:GNG. It's difficult to find online sources because much of his career predates the mainstream coverage of MMA and Jiu-Jitsu online, but he still received significant, non-trivial coverage in print. While he fails WP:NMMA and is borderline on WP:MANOTE, his notability in MMA, BJJ and as an instructor taken as a whole should merit inclusion in Wikipedia. Luchuslu (talk) 04:20, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - As stated by Luchuslu above, because he meets wp:GNG inasmuch as he received significant, non-trivial coverage in aggregate as a fighter and as a trainer. Any !votes that did not consider GNG, but just focused on NMMA and/or MANOTE, of course should be discounted accordingly.  It is, clearly, sufficient to meet GNG.  And more than notable -- The Telegraph described him as "a legend in fighting circles."--Epeefleche (talk) 04:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - With the addition of the new references, I'm comfortable saying that he passes WP:GNG. Good work on digging them up. CaSJer (talk) 13:02, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.