Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramon Rivero (Performance animator)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. He's clearly received some level of coverage, but the only real agreement here is that it's somewhere on the borderline of warranting an article. ~ mazca  talk 09:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Ramon Rivero (Performance animator)

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Rivero has earned some passing mentions in reliable sources, but none have really managed to be significant. I've listed the only ones that come close (the rest mention him for at most two sentences; they're from a LexisNexis document dump I can send to anyone who wants it). —Neil 03:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sanjith Sidhardhan, Rajinikanth’s packed Kerala schedule, The Times of India (20 April 2012).
 * Melbourne Festival II: Puppet Power, Australian Broadcasting Company (27 October 2002).
 * Ramon Rivero, NZ On Screen
 * Brian Sibley, Peter Jackson: A Film-maker's Journey
 * I haven't found a copy of this book, but a copy of the index on Google Books shows he's mentioned on only one page
 * D.D. McNicoll and Emma-Kate Symons, "Strewth" (?), The Australian (4 April 2003)
 * Only section dealing with Rivero: "In The Lord of the Rings movies, the quirky computer-generated character Gollum, below, is obsessed with the Ring, calling it "my precious" as he follows it around Middle Earth. Funny then how life imitates art. The man who created the character of Gollum, lead performance animator Ramon Rivero, yesterday showed some preciousness of his own in Brisbane. The media were invited to cover a presentation he was giving to students at the Queensland University of Technology, where he would "reveal the secrets" behind his animation. But when The Australian and others turned up, Rivero stuck his nose in the air and ordered them to leave. He was gracious enough to offer an interview after his presentation -- on the condition that no mention was to be made of The Lord of the Rings, Gollum or his animation. Oh, and no photos either."
 * Dianne Butler and James McCullough, "Don't ring me, and I won't ring you", The Courier-Mail (4 April 2003; [ )
 * Complete text: "APPARENTLY Academy Award-winning animator Ramon Rivero had a "bad experience" with the media one time. Rivero, the genius behind Gollum, the computer-created Lord of the Rings character, pictured, is in Brisbane for a forum at QUT today. Yet when attempts were made to interview Rivero about his dazzling career, he became very agitated and insisted he would not be talking to any media (note to self: Remember that the next time he's flogging a movie) -- in fact, he'd prefer it if his name and Lord of the Rings were not even linked. He was especially put out with the people at QUT for daring to release to the world word of his trip. They got back at him though -- in their press release they called his ugly hobbit Dollum."
 * Additional sources: (1) Daily Telegraph Perth 14 Feb 2003 "How Gollum came to Life"; (2) MacFan Netherlands August 2005 "Ramon Rivero"; (3) Andy Serkis's: Lord of the Rings Gollum How we made movie magic, p36: "Ramon Explained it was more like controlling or 'driving' a puppet than acting the character, that I had to project life into the Gollum on the screen. Thinking I understood what he meant, I donned the goggles..."--Ramon Rivero (103.9.42.152/Sr7wiki) 12:20, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Reformatted for easier reading—Neil 22:14, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. — Mike  moral  ♪♫  05:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. — Mike  moral  ♪♫  05:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep For widespread, if not detailed, coverage in numerous reliable independent sources. Candleabracadabra (talk) 00:14, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar   &middot;   &middot;  15:11, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

 
 * Neutral. Rivero (aka Sr7wiki) has emailed me copies of the sources he mentioned in his comment above. The Daily Telegraph article is a solid source that's primarily about Rivero, as is the MacFan article (unfortunately, that one's in Dutch, so I wouldn't be able to use it myself). I only saw one page of the book by Serkis, but the mention of Rivero is quite brief. So that leaves us at two solid sources (maybe three if we're generous to the very brief mentions and the sources we haven't seen). For me, that put this topic right on the boundary where we could probably write a three-sentence permastub, but nothing more. So I'm neutral. If we decide to keep it, I'll write up what I can, but given the paucity of sources I'm honestly not that excited about it. —Neil 04:57, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And as with the LexisNexis dump, I'll be happy to email the sources to anybody who wants a look. —Neil —Preceding undated comment added 05:00, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - His roles seem to be fairly minor, not enough to justify an article - SimonLyall (talk) 04:01, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 08:59, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.