Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Randal Simmons


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete the articles on Crehan, Ellsworth and Wylie as there seems to be no real objections to that. The remainder will be closed as no consensus at this time, as there was some potential for notability being discussed. Because of the relative lack of discussion here, I have no objections to the immediate renomination of the remainder (as individual nominations) but will leave that up to the discretion of interested editors. Shereth 21:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Randal Simmons

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Subject appears to be notable only for being shot; WP:BLP1E (although as he's dead, BLP may not apply). There's also WP:NOTMEMORIAL and it seems a bit propaganda-ish ("Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented") so WP:NOTADVERTISING, too. While it may be a tragedy, it's not notable enough for Wikipedia. I should also add that I contributed to the article in the past. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 02:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages (some of which I actually created) for the same reasons:


 * Comment It might be better to split these into individual noms. James Ellsworth looks like an easy delete, but Randal Simmons might be considered to have some notability due to being the first LAPD SWAT member to die in the line of duty.  It might be too hard to blanket judge this many articles, each with unique circumstances. Resolute 03:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * SWAT is just one division of LAPD. Does this mean that cops who died in other LAPD divisions, such as traffic, K9 or Air Support are notable enough for an article? WP:ONEEVENT still applies, IMO. He may be notable in so far as local news coverage, but hey, this is Los Angeles, and Jamie-Lynn Spears giving birth was the top news story here today! Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 03:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete all. Serving as a policeman is a noble calling, and they gave their lives in the line of duty. But the most nearly notable, Simmons, has only one splash of news coverage from around the time of the killing. Fails notability per WP:NOT and the essay WP:NOTNEWS. The other articles are mirrors of an "officer down" website. Not every soldier killed in a war, not every ironworker killed making a skyscraper or bridge, not every farmer killed when the tractor turns over, is inherently notable. Wikipedia reflects what has been noted by reliable and independent sources via substantial multiple coverage. Further, being newsworthy, for one news cycle, is not the same as being encyclopedic, an enduring part of knowledge. Eikipedia is not a memorial, and these are mirrors of a memorial site. Edison (talk) 04:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Crehan, Ellsworth and Wylie; Keep remainder. Murders of police officers are notable enough for articles; officers who die in traffic accidents are no more notable than anyone else who dies in a traffic accident. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Are you saying that any police officer killed in the line of duty by shooting is inherently notable, even without multiple reliable and independent sources showing that the coverage is more than mere one time news coverage, but an equally non-publicized policeman death in a car wreck isn't notable? Is there a guideline stating that? You might wish to try and add that to the notability criteria at WP:N and see how far it gets. Why would a policemen who is shot be more inherently notable than a soldier shot or blown up in a war, or an aviator shot down or a sailor killed in a war? Seems very point of view to make the life of a policeman more precious or his death more notable than the other cases. Edison (talk) 15:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Nowhere did I say it was a guideline - it's my opinion, as is usual on AfDs. Police officers who are shot are usually murdered, and yes, stranger murders are generally notable. Any stranger murder, not just that of a police officer. War deaths and accidental deaths are not the same thing at all - they usually receive much less coverage unless the circumstances are exceptional. Not POV, just fact. I don't know about the US, but here in the UK the murder of a police officer will be national front page news and will remain newsworthy until the killer has been caught and convicted; if that's not the case in the US, well, maybe Americans have become a little too blasé about murder! -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Close this nomination and Reapply separately for each case. It's impossible to give a blanket decision because it is possible for one or more of these people to be more notable than others. 23skidoo (talk) 15:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Of course, dying to protect our safety is noble and notable indeed, but we must not let this cloud our decision. Had Simmons not die, would he be notable? I do not think so. I have argued that we need to delete pages because of notability by death. This case is no different. Arbiteroftruth (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.