Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raoul Albert La Roche


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Yunshui 雲 水 08:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Raoul Albert La Roche

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Not seeing a lot of notability, and some degree over inheritance of notability. Not helped by also being poorly written as well. Slatersteven (talk) 14:01, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 14:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finance-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 14:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

This person has an entry in the Historical Dictionary of Switzerland: Link. Therefore it should be kept according to this notability rule: "The person has an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography or similar publication." (ANY:BIO) --Hadi (talk) 14:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * "...meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included.".Slatersteven (talk) 14:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

This person is know in different countries in Europe (Germany/Swiss/France...) and he is connected about some art work (like Villa La Roche) and art collection in different museum in France and Swiss (look the internal links of this article or this external link about kunstmuseumbasel for exemple). We can also find many references of him in google in some books or news. --Siemanym (talk) 15:11, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems to me the house is notable, hence why I says there may be some issues with inherited notability.Slatersteven (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep but stub to get rid of what looks like an awful machine translation of the French article. An entry in the quite selective Historical Dictionary of Switzerland basically establishes notability. In addition, there is a monograph about him in his function as patron of Le Corbusier.  Sandstein   15:27, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

His entry in Worldcat says: "18 works in 49 publications in 4 languages and 919 library holdings" Link. --Hadi (talk) 16:07, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. Quote from the NYT, April 9, 2013: "some of the world’s most celebrated collections, including those of Gertrude Stein, the Swiss banker Raoul La Roche (...)". Link --Hadi (talk) 16:12, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * An other quote about an exposition in the Museum of Fine Arts, Basel: "Having bestowed upon his native city one of the most outstanding collections of Cubism in the world, Raoul La Roche invested the museum with great international importance in the field of classical Modern Art. The endowment consists of 3 paintings by Picasso, 19 works by Braque (...)." Link --Hadi (talk) 16:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Please note sources have to be in depth the establish notability.Slatersteven (talk) 09:31, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * @Slatersteven: sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. --Hadi (talk) 20:17, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Single sentences (or even paragraphs) or brief mentions are not enough to establish notability.Slatersteven (talk) 12:13, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - few of the references are about La Roche himself, but about his house or people he knew, therefore WP:INVALIDBIO - no particular notability - does not meet WP:BASIC or WP:ANYBIO - Epinoia (talk) 21:26, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MrClog (talk) 04:55, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

La Roche was an important art collector (Picasso, Braque, etc.). In other articles this seems establish the notability (for ex. Michael Friedsam). Is a list of the famous collected paintings necessary? --Hadi (talk) 14:33, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * A fine example of why this sort of thing is bad, its just a list of paintings.Slatersteven (talk) 15:11, 12 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep As well as the entry in the Historical Dictionary of Switzerland, there is an article about him called 'Raoul La Roche, Art collector and Builder of the villa "La Rocca" ' in Architectura - Zeitschrift fur Geschichte der Baukunst (39(2):171-184 · January 2009) (I just noticed this is already in the article as a bare url reference, which does not show how long it is (13 pages), nor where it was published - in a peer-reviewed publication. There are other sources, which are not as long and don't all cover as much information as these two sources, but the nominator appears to be overlooking the point made in WP:BASIC: "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability", and the statement in WP:GNG: "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Paragraphs are definitely more than trivial mentions, and as well as the sources already included, there are additional paragraphs and informative sentences in 'LE CORBUSIER'S CLIENTS AND THEIR PARISIAN HOUSES OF THE 1920s', Art History (Jun83, Vol. 6 Issue 2, p188-198)  and other articles about Le Corbusier and about La Roche's art collection. He may have been written about because he collected art and commissioned Le Corbusier to design a house for him, but he has been written about. AfD is not about the quality of the article - it can easily be improved with more information from these sources, and with more natural English. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:20, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep obviously meets notability requirements. See also https://www.metmuseum.org/art/libraries-and-research-centers/leonard-lauder-research-center/research/index-of-cubist-art-collectors/la-roche Shyamal (talk) 15:47, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Ample evidence of notability has been provided. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:09, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Important source for Le Corbusier works and of course provenance for anything else of note that he collected, including the house "Villa della Rocca" itself. Sources for this are readily available online. Jane (talk) 18:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.