Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rasheed Sulaimon (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedily deleted by Fastily (WP:CSD, author requested). --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Rasheed Sulaimon
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Does not seem to meet WP:NBASKETBALL. -- Non-Dropframe   talk   22:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This page was recreated but I cannot verify how close this page is to the original, so I did not nominate for speedy. -- Non-Dropframe   talk   22:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:52, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:53, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete, appears to fail Notability (sports). Hairhorn (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep This article contains content about a notable person who is comparable to several notable people who have approved Wikipedia pages i.e. Marcus Paige, Shabazz Muhammad, Alex Murphy (basketball), Mitch McGary etc. <--- If this page is subject to possible delete then the referenced similar pages should also be subject to deletion. This page references several verfied independent objective sources to back up all content on the page. Google the name and it is pretty obvious that this is a notable person more so than some of the pages referenced above. Searching for Rasheed Sulaimon generates over 53,000 results on Google that include national articles, images, videos, and more. Sulaimon has also has participated in (All American Championship - ESPN, Boost Mobile Elite 24 - ESPNU) and is scheduled to appear (2012 Jordan Brand Classic All American game - ESPN, alumni for this event include several NBA players) in several nationally televised events on ESPN and ESPNU. Also note that Sulaimon also clearly meets the Notability (sports) criteria for High school and pre-high school athletes which states: High school and pre-high school athletes are notable only if they have received, as individuals, substantial and prolonged coverage that is (1) independent of the subject and (2) clearly goes beyond WP:ROUTINE coverage. Note that the first clause would exclude all school papers and school websites that cover their sports teams and other teams they compete against. The second clause excludes the majority of local coverage in both news sources and sports specific publications. It especially excludes using game play summaries, statistical results, or routine interviews as sources to establish notability. -BasketballNeverStops (talk) 06:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - I think it's time to re-assess notability standards for American HS and college athletes. Now, in the internet and 200-channel age there are a plethora of media outlets that cover college and HS sports.  All of these are going to reach fairly deeply into the pool they cover to come up with content since there is so much competition for eyeballs.  Sites like Scout and Rivals have to come up with 24/7 content and they are going to profile the top 200 or so HS players regardless of what their future holds.  The question is if there is now a new standard of "routine coverage" or not.  I am open-minded about the direction we go, but I think it needs to be clarified.  How can guys like Sulaimon and Marcus Paige be notable when we are having AfD discussions about productive college players like JaMychal Green and Jon Leuer?  A lot of these guys won't even pan out to be good college players, let alone professionals.  If we can clearly define the standard beyond the nebulous GNG I think it would help a lot.  Frankly, with the proliferation of media outlets, I think a LOT of people and things pass GNG - more than you would expect to see in an encyclopedia for certain.  At any rate, this definitely shouldn't be "speedy kept" if for no other reason than it was deleted once and the subject hasn't suddenly become more notable since. Rikster2 (talk) 14:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Also Worth Noting - The article creator seems to be conected to the subject. Rikster2 (talk) 14:32, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment In response to User:BasketballNeverStops' assertion that this should be kept since articles like Marcus Paige, Shabazz Muhammad, and Alex Murphy (basketball) exist, that argument holds no water at all per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. What exists on this website is judged on a case-by-case basis, not a catch-all topical criterion. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is a closer call than most basketball-related AfD entries, but here's why my !vote is for delete: Perusing the sources on his article, most of them are directly off of Duke's athletic website or some derivative Duke fanboy website (failing independent coverage). Looking at the rosters of some top tier national high school all-star games, it doesn't go into any coverage on him other than basic vitals (name, age, height, weight, school, position etc.). The fact that he was selected to play in any of these games does not bestow inherent notability. Furthermore, the 3- or 4-sentence write-ups about each participant is a decent start but just not nearly enough to satisfy GNG, let alone when it comes to a high school player (i.e. high school players need to be more carefully scrutinized since their futures are so much more up in the air than even college athletes' are). Once I got through the rest of the listed sources it became clear that they are just athlete profiles, not articles. My next step was to Google him. Everything I found on the first 3 pages of results led to either blogs, recruiting websites (whose inherent flaws as sources were pointed out by Rikster) or otherwise unreliable sources for various other reasons. Is Rasheed Sulaimon notable? Well, he has certainly garnered a lot more attention than 99.9% of high school basketball players, but that is not a criterion for notability and neither is Ghits, which User:BasketballNeverStops tried to argue. He may become notable a year from now, but to !vote keep on the presumption of his future notability is clearly crystal-balling. Great high school player? You bet. Notable per Wikipedia standards at the moment? No. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:42, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep meets WP:GNG, also seems that persons recommending delete have possible COI as they are creators of similar pages or go to alma maters different from the ones on this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.78.142 (talk) 22:11, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment you can put the COI stuff in your pipe and smoke it. I am a Carolina fan, but I'm also the guy who put Leslie McDonald up for AfD.  And I didn't vote delete either.  Jrcla2 is a Duke fan so don't you look like a bozo? Rikster2 (talk) 22:55, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to let the record show that that yes, I am a Duke fan even though I graduated from William & Mary. I've created UNC basketball players' articles in the past and I'm voting delete on a future Dookie. Wow, that sure came back to bite you right in the butt. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:53, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comments about the IP who !voted keep - This is a comment to any closing administrator that the IP who !voted keep is most likely the same person who created the article. This IP blanked the first AfD nomination, removed the AfD notice from the article, removed Rikster's and my comments from this AfD and also blanked Rasheed's talk page. Furthermore, this IP tried to !vote keep by saying it "meets GNG" without specifying how it does (which, by the way, my delete !vote clearly explained why GNG doesn't apply here), and then finally attempted to diminish Rikster's !vote by using the strawman fallacy. Whatever administrator is reading this should think very carefully about how much weight s/he wants to give this IP sockpuppet. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete notability not established. Duke sources and being on some basketball counting doe not prove notability to me. --GrapedApe (talk) 05:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.