Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rathoa Haryam Bridge


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Procedural close per WP:DENY. The OP has been blocked as a sockpuppet with no other editors supporting deletion. This close is w/o prejudice to a speedy renomination should an editor in good standing be so inclined. Ad Orientem (talk) 03:56, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Rathoa Haryam Bridge

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Not a whole lot of sources online outside of Facebook, YouTube and online forums. May not be particularly notable as a planned project that doesn't have a lot of media coverage. Fails WP:CRYSTAL. BFDIBebble (talk) 17:32, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * User:BFDIBebble has been blocked for sock-puppetry, according to posting at User talk:BFDIBebble. I went there to ask for them to withdraw this AFD, per my comments below.  The fact that the deletion nominator is blocked, permanently, means even more strongly that this AFD should just be closed "Speedy Keep", IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 03:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 18:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. Tagging for more development and sources would be fine, but this is NOT a mere proposal.  See this 2020(?) youtube video for example:  it is a massive built structure.  I gather it is 5 kilometers long.  It must have cost tens or hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars in construction.  It also seems the bridge's final span crossing the river has not been completed, so while 90 or 95 percent of spending has happened, it is so far all in vain.  There must be huge story here, of political conflict or corruption or who knows what, about why this has not been completed.  The first source in the article is to 2010 description and letting of construction contracts. (That source, but not yet the article, includes coordinates: 33.16028°N, 73.80583°W.  Google Satellite view imagery from 2020 shows it is not complete.  The bridge spans a large arm of the reservoir behind Mangla Dam, the seventh largest dam in the world, built by World Bank funding and U.S. contractors.  Associated with the Mangla Dam project and its expansion were vast, costly resettlements.) A comment is there about how construction ruined a village;  there surely have been other huge impacts, including the delivery of wealth to contractors. Offhand, it looks like the bridge's completion would not greatly improve ties between major cities (and some numbers about that appear in one of the sources), it kinda looks like a boondoggle bridge to nowhere scandal, for which construction plans I speculate might have helped secure political agreement for the dam.) It is 2020 now, am I right? What gives?  Mention of this is probably appropriate in a Wikipedia list-article of World Bank-funded disastrous developments, completed or not. About this AFD, I guess wp:BEFORE not completed, and/or deletion nominator (like me) not conversant in relevant languages.  I 100 percent disagree with deletion nomination assertion that there is not media coverage;  that is simply impossible to believe.  I get lots of hits, can't necessarily evaluate them properly though. Or if media coverage has actually really truly been suppressed, that makes for a bigger story about how that has been accomplished.  Another source in the article points to a news video which I can't follow, appearing to be about public events announcing something, perhaps construction of the bridge (but no pictures of bridges appear, and it may in fact be completely unrelated), and ending with apparent promotion of various political figures.  Oh this is about a bridge in or linking to Kashmir (or rather Azad Kashmir), center of vast dispute between India and Pakistan and Kashmir forces.  In disputed Kashmir, there are villages split by walls, and there has been random artillery shelling across borders which is just part of daily life for locals.  I rather assume this bridge was conceived and built as far as it was in time of some cooperation, but ethnic/religious/political state disagreement eventually stopped its construction.  Or there never was sufficient agreement to allow the bridge to be completed, and it shouldn't really have been started, but it was a great way to deliver great wealth to contractors and/or to the political parties/figures with whom they collaborate.  Anyhow, this is a major construction project, bigger than size/value of most corporations in the world, and it is itself a geographical feature (wp:GEOFEAT) clearly worth Wikipedia coverage.--Doncram (talk) 21:07, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * By the way, the Kashmir article and Azad Kashmir articles are a warzone, subject to arbitration-imposed discretionary sanctions. The bridge should probably be mentioned in one or more of these, like in the Kashmir article's brief "Kashmir" section, which lamely does not properly address the impasses about borders and border crossings.  It includes bland statement about a railway: "It is expected to link Kashmir to the rest of India after the construction of the railway line from Katra to Banihal is completed."
 * with no update since 2016 source. Wikipedia needs editor recruitment, development in this general area, not deletion/destruction of stub-level starting coverage. --Doncram (talk) 21:07, 30 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment on bullying nature of this AFD: No offense meant towards the deletion nominator, who may not be conversant about bullying-type issues around AFDs.  But this AFD, like many others, appears offhand to be the wp:BITEing retaliation of an editor against a brand new editor User:Mymirpur (new user, just 3 edits, only to this article), who had the temerity to add info to the article, apparently in good faith, but without awareness or compliance with Wikipedia sourcing requirements.  I frankly believe their assertions (deleted by the deletion nominator) that "federal Minister for Kashmir affairs Ali Amin Gandapur said that this bridge will be completed in December 2019 and he will drive first car on it himself but even December has gone long time ago not a single brick has been moved on the bridge", "There has been so much speculations about the bridge and corruption involved in making it. It has been in construction phase for last 10 years", and that "complaints has been sent to Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir and Also to Prime Minister of Pakistan about this".  The deletion nominator appears to have communicated only by edit summaries, has not welcomed or reached out with any helpful guidance or polite request to the Talk page of the editor.  (The deletion nominator did add, however, at User talk:Mymirpur, accusations of disruption and threat of blocking, not a great way to further dialogue.)  I happen to be more bullying-conscious and bullying-concerned/focused than most, but frankly, IMHO this kind of AFD amounts to bullying and driving away of prospective new editors.  IMHO it would be appropriate for this and similar AFDs to be closed by Speedy Keep in order to stop the negative impacts going on, on this topic which is pretty obviously quite Wikipedia-notable anyhow.  The way forward for wikipedia is not to badger, bash, block, harass, delete all the edits of new editors.  The damage done is more than can be remedied by others following and attempting to welcome and guide the new editors (so my "welcome" message is just a lame effort.  Great, way to work together, do let's make Wikipedia great again! --Doncram (talk) 22:23, 30 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.