Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raymond Leslie Morris


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 05:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Raymond Leslie Morris

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

See WP:BLP1E. Wikipedia shouldn't be a publisher of true crime stories. This person has no historical significance that would merit an article, nor are there any truly biographical sources (where the one event he gained notoriety for aren't the subject of the source). He committed a murder that was briefly the subject of news articles, and that is all. But we are not a news source. Delete. Dominic·t 03:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per Notability (criminal acts). "One of Britain's most notorious child murderers...": . "They were the murders that shocked the nation.": . "The investigation that followed was one of the biggest in British criminal history.": . Location (talk) 04:34, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Those second two quotes are referring to a case in which Morris was never convicted or even charged, and the second source doesn't even seem to mention him (I can't read the whole article without a subscription). I think you should read that guideline again, and note the difference between criminal acts, and biographies of living criminals, especially suspected ones. I recommend you look over Notability (criminal acts) closely. Dominic·t 06:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would be willing to recommend a move to Murder of Christine Darby if you think that would better fit with guidelines at Notability (criminal acts). The fact is that her murder BY Morris has received significant coverage in multiple sources. "The verdict ended the seven-day trial of Morris which had attracted unprecedented public interest with queues more than 100-long forming each day for seats in the public gallery." If something generates "unprecedented public interest" and we cannot make it work with our guidelines, then something needs to be changed. Although he has not been convicted or charged with the [other two] A34 Murders, those murders and that fact that he is/was a suspect in them has also received a tremendous amount of coverage in the British Press. Location (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC) [edited 06:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)]
 * You are free to try to write that article if you think it is important enough, but no, I do not think that this biography should simply a moved to a new name. If anything, a new article about the actual event should be written from scratch, but that has no bearing on the final disposition of the biography we are talking about here. Dominic·t 21:08, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, per dom...er, nom, and also because it's completely unreferenced. Articles like this are what make Wikipedia suck. --Closedmouth (talk) 06:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, perhaps speedy: it's an unreferenced negative biography. Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Instead of saying "this article isn't referenced, delete it", why not search for, and add references? I found and added two, there are more mentions in books, I didn't look for newspaper coverage but I guess there's more. I remain neutral however, as it is one-event-ish and I'm not sure if one murder qualifies you for an encyclopedia entry. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 12:51, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Skomorokh  03:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Comment. Regarding the concerns regarding WP:RS, the article has virtually been rewritten since it was listed for Afd: . Location (talk) 06:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  —Location (talk) 04:04, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: Per WP:BLP1E. Joe Chill (talk) 02:43, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.