Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RedSpotGames


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 14:07, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

RedSpotGames
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no real notability shown for this company. sources provided show no significant coverage in independent reliable sources and none found with significant coverage. nothing satisfying wp:corp. New article recreation at RedSpotGames (with caps) instead of redspotgames (no caps as they write it) appears to be an attempt to bypass the salting of the real title, which if memory serves correct was also recreated as a subsection of Dreamcast-Scene as another attempt to bypass the salt, with a redirect created with caps. (Speedy deletion from G4 declined, see talk page, different enough from original article.) duffbeerforme (talk) 15:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete No evidence of notability. Some of the "references" do not refer to redspotgames at all; for example, there is a reference to a page on Dreamcast Scene's web site, apparently because Dreamcast Scene is mentioned in the article, though that page does not mention redspotgames at all. Likewise with other references. In fact the only references which mention redspotgames are two links to the company's own web site and one to an advertising page on a web site selling one of their products, so there are no independent sources at all. (Also, in view of the close connection between redspotgames and Dreamcast Scene, pages on Dreamcast Scene's web site would not be independent sources even if they did mention redspotgames.) JamesBWatson (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

*Delete - no significant coverage from reliable sources. --Teancum (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: The reason giving for declining the speedy deletion was that the original version "had only four references, most of which were not independent", whereas the new version "has nine references" (actually seven), and "the editor is attempting to address the problems". While that is no doubt true (apart from the mistake in counting references), simply adding more references which are not independent or do not mention the subject does not address the problems, so in my opinion the speedy deletion notification was valid. JamesBWatson (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that the G4 nomination was valid (I made it) and I will not argue against the opinion that there was enough difference to decline the speedy deletion. duffbeerforme (talk) 16:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note - Canvassing via Twitter here. --Teancum (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep per sourcing found. Barely enough for inclusion. --Teancum (talk) 15:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep I found the following secondary sources which help establish this topic's notability.
 * Game Informer - Dreamcast Not Dead – New Release Set For 2010
 * Wired - New Dreamcast Games Coming This Spring
 * GamePro - New Dreamcast Title in 2009
 * GameSpot - GC 2008: They Are Still Making Dreamcast Games
 * Engadget - Redspotgames has plans for further Dreamcast development
 * 1Up - Rush Rush Rally Racing Coming to Sega Dreamcast
 * Computer and Video Games - Dreamcast releases still planned into 2011
 * TGDaily - German developer is reviving the Dreamcast
 * Gamesradar - German TV show reveals a new Dreamcast game
 * Computer and Video Games - New Dreamcast game revealed
 * Kotaku - On German TV, They've Unveiled A New Dreamcast Game Note: Kotaku is listed as "situational" at WP:WikiProject Video games/Sources depending on the author of the article. In this case, Stephen Totilo is a published author on video games.
 * Game Set Watch - Sturmwind: First Trailer For New Dreamcast Euroshmup Note: Listed as reliable at WP:WikiProject Video games/Sources.
 * Game Set Watch - Sturmwind: New Shoot'em Up Announced For Dreamcast
 * GameSpot - GC 2008: They Are Still Making Dreamcast Games
 * A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:32, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep There are serveral references even in larger print magazines like gamesTM, the links to websites above or even in Japanese media:
 * Inside-Games.jp

Also there are several videos of their game fair shows available:
 * YouTube videos Andrew wu77 (talk) 01:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

^--Cube b3 (talk) 17:50, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I am the main editor and creator of the article, if their are complaints towards the writing style let's discuss it in the article's discussion section and work towards improving it. Deleting it is a slap on the face for contributing at wikipedia :*Kotaku redspotgames tag --203.81.205.119 (talk) 17:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Cube b3 is trying to astroturf to keep the article and all the keeps may be sock puppets. This link is proof. http://dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=100844 -68.185.90.190 (talk) 19:23, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I've warned the editor here. In the meantime, 68.185.90.190, I'd appreciate it if you focused on whether this article's topic is notable. In particular, I've provided a list of secondary sources which seemed to address the main complaint about the article.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * KEEP! - The company is the only one that is still supporting the Dreamcast console which makes it absolutely unique. redspotgames and their games have been in popular print magazines and websites and they were even on German TV, on a mainstream channel, not a gaming one -> http://de.sevenload.com/videos/Q5afitx-Sturmwind-redspotgames-bei-neues-3sat . The article may need some editing, but notability is clear for me. Also, as you can see there more than enough neutral sources.... duffbeerforme, please stop expressing your personal dislike against this company... --Maturion (talk) 12:16, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Maturion is possibly a puppet as he is a dcemulation.org user. He likely came here from the topic linked above. http://dcemulation.org/?title=User:Maturion  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.185.90.190 (talk) 18:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I am a DC Emulation user as well, it is a community of very passionate Dreamcast users, just like the passion wikipedians have to write articles, this is significant to us and DC Emulation alone is a community with over 10,000 members --Cube b3 (talk) 20:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Claiming I am a puppet because I am registered at a particular forum is pretty poor. And no, although I am a registered user over there, I didn't come from this forum, nor did anyone ask me to join this discussion. By the way, don't you have any other points that justify the deletion of redspotgames except that we all may be puppets? The reasons for the proposed deletion are all disproven:
 * no real notability shown for this company. - redspotgames published 5 games, 2 more are coming very soon. Also, redspotgames is a unique appearance, they are the only company that is doing games for the SEGA Dreamcast console.
 * sources provided show no significant coverage in independent reliable sources and none found with significant coverage. - redspotgames has been featured on websites such as Kotaku, 1up.com, Engadget or Wired News which are among the most popular websites worldwide. In addition to that they were featured or interviewed in magazines like Computer and Video Games and gamesTM and they were even on German TV (3sat).

I'd call that MORE than enough independet, reliable sources with enough significant coverage. The article may need some editing, though.--Maturion (talk) 21:50, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The games have received that coverage. The company, independent from the games is in question.  I'm not chiming in with a keep or delete as this topic doesn't interest me, but just be clear that game coverage with a mention of the publisher/dev is not the same as independent coverage for either company. --Teancum (talk) 02:28, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Looking at the sources provided I do not see any that would be called significant coverage of redspotgames in independent reliable sources. The nomination still stands. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Duffbeerforme: Can you please be a little more specific? Are you saying that these sources don't provide significant coverage?  Are you saying that they're not reliable or that they're not independent?  I'm not sure what your specific objection is.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 11:31, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a mixture. Articles about their games with just a passing mention of redspotgames (gamespot, gamepro, 1up, computerandvideogames, gamesradar, kotaku), reproduction of press releases (computerandvideogames, kotaku), trivial announcements (wired, 1up, computerandvideogames, inside-games), plain trivial trivial (engadget), blogs (gamespot, tgdaily, computerandvideogames, gamesradar), user comments (gameinformer), themselves talking about themselves (youtube). There is some more overlap where I think the sorces belong. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:33, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Duffbeerforme: Both articles from Computer and Video games are not press releases. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:03, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * But I can see what you mean in that most of these articles are fairly short. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Sources that are actually mainly about redspotgames itself:
 * http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/21/redspotgames-looking-to-continue-publishing-for-dreamcast/
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-XRNuVFKiE
 * Comment:  Just quoting User:duffbeerforme: While it may look like I'm after your articles I'm actually targeting articles related to redspotgames
 * --Maturion (talk) 11:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Youtube ref is redspotgames talking about themselves, not independent. joystiq is on the trivial size, is promotional and is on "media of limited interest" (WP:CORP, audience). As for the quote, I was at that time as wikipedia is not a means of promotion and that's what all these articles came across as (combined with the history of recreation of articles). duffbeerforme (talk) 14:33, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Stop telling nonsense, please. They've been invited to a TV show to tell more about themselves. That's not a video from redspotgames. Actually, 3sat is one of the most popular TV channels in Germany and can be received by 80 million households in whole Europe. Joystiq is not on the trivial size, even if you claim so, something different is the case. It's the 1,534th most visited website in the world, meaning that it gets at least several hundred thousands if not millions of pageviews a day. The website of Handelsblatt, one of Germany's best known newspapers is on #2,694  --Maturion (talk) 20:44, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Meant the joysiq reference, not the site itself. duffbeerforme (talk) 08:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep, since I don't understand the whole fuzz about questioning the companies' notability. I see some personal rejection here in the deletion page. Clearly there are several sources from notable resources available: IGN, Joystiq, Kotaku. I wouldn't describe myself as Dreamcast scener since I never have owned a Dreamcast before 2008, when Rush Rush Rally Racing by Redspotgames came out and saw them at a Games Convention fair and bought their Xbox 360 game Solar Struggle. I have also been to their Gamescom booth - which is the largest videogame fair in Europe by the way, another notable event, and took some photos. I can help enhance the article and provide further independent sources, such as the M!Games article (German Magazine), see: Article about Redspotgames in German Magazine - it's the largest multi platform Magazine here in Germany and they have written some independent articles about Redspotgames as a company. This very articles handles about their Chiptune live shows, which would make the article on Wikipedia even more notable, because they have unique presentations and makes them more as just "people who put others games' out". It's a big topic in the Indie Scene right now. Arno.f (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


 * A company that has published seven commercial games, and three more to come... has "no real notability"? If that's supposed to be a joke, it's not funny. -- Stormwatch (talk) 18:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Notability on Wikipedia has nothing to do with number of games released. That's not a joke. Reach Out to the Truth 20:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:43, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak keep per Teancum. There are a couple of sources which stick out, in which this (if barely) gets by on notability. –MuZemike 22:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * May I ask which sources stick out? duffbeerforme (talk) 18:32, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep

We start round 2 now: redspotgames is a video game publisher, distributor and promoter based in Munich Germany. Established in 2005, the company is known for publishing new games for the long discontinued Sega Dreamcast video game system, recently redspotgames have also branched off publishing to digital services such as X-Box Live and Nintendo WiiWare. The company has been present at international trade events such as Gamescom, their games have advertised and promoted on National TV shows in multiple countries. German TV show Neus revealed their latest game Sturmwind. Australian TV show Good Game on ABC Australia reviewd Rush Rush Rally Racing--Cube b3 (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Delete The Company lacks of notability.--79.235.100.74 (talk) 20:55, 14 January 2011 (UTC) — 79.235.100.74 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.