Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red Hot Kinda Love


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect all to the respective albums. I am calling on or other interested editors to create the redirects.  Sandstein  13:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Red Hot Kinda Love

 * – ( View AfD View log )

The mentioned articles are about an album's non-single tracks that fail WP:NSONGS or WP:GNG. While these songs did chart on the South Korean singles chart, it should be reminded that chart positions may be notable enough that a search for coverage in reliable independent sources will be successful. A quick search through search engines has resulted in little notable third-party coverage, and most of the articles that cover these topics are mostly fanpages/lyrics websites. The current sources in these articles are mostly reserved to album reviews, and thus it fails notability requirements: Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability. My suggestion is to redirect these articles into the songs' parent albums' articles. HĐ (talk) 03:55, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Lotus (Christina Aguilera album): Red Hot Kinda Love, Lotus Intro, Sing for Me (Christina Aguilera song), Around the World (Christina Aguilera song), Circles (Christina Aguilera song)
 * Redirect to Bionic (Christina Aguilera album): Glam (song), Lift Me Up (Christina Aguilera song)
 * Redirect to Stripped (Christina Aguilera album): Walk Away (Christina Aguilera song)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 03:59, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 03:59, 19 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep These have commentary aside from album reviews, also charting. They all have a lot of content. — Calvin999  21:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned above, chart positions do not warrant notability. I do not currently see any coverage beyond album reviews and discussions; most of the articles have the following structure: Background (album recording/production/release date) → Composition (CFORK from album reviews) → Critical reception (also CFORK from album reviews) → Chart performance (does not equate to notability), HĐ (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Walk Away (Christina Aguilera song) and Lift Me Up (Christina Aguilera song) those are important album tracks and favorite songs of many. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RavenPrey (talk • contribs) 14:57, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you'll find WP:ATA useful. They are not (objectively) "important album tracks", and "favorite songs of many" is a poor reason to keep. HĐ (talk) 15:14, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Several other users here have already cited objective reasons, yet they haven't been good enough for some. Walk Away on its own has several live performances and has qualitative value. Keep it.
 * Sorry, but I have responded to their reasons per WP:NSONGS. Just because they have cited reasons does not mean that their reasons are strong enough for a keep consensus. If you can find sources to improve the articles, please do so. Keep in mind however, these sources must comply with notability requirements. HĐ (talk) 15:57, 22 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Lotus, Stripped, and Bionic as the coverage seems to be limited to album reviews. I have done a Google search to see if there is any coverage, and the only thing I can pull up is this Bustle article (here) on "Red Hot Kinda Love", and that is not enough to support significant coverage on its own. When I did the search, I mostly saw people talking about these songs in the context of the album. I'm slightly surprised "Glam" did not get more coverage since it was initially supposed to be the lead single from that album. Aoba47 (talk) 03:36, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps "Glam" did generate some buzz, but sadly potential sources may have been rotten... HĐ (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep The songs nominated for deletion are as notable and worth keeping on Wikipedia as Taylor Swift's songs (and she has a lot of articles on separate songs). They charted on mainstream charts (GAON, OCC, Billboard, among others) without being released as singles. They were performed on television (SNL for "Walk Away") or during widely seen concerts (Hope for Haiti - "Lift Me Up"). They created enough buzz to be kept here, and the sources cited are definitely not only reviews. If for some strange reason those songs are meant to be deleted, I want to know why these were not nominated for deletion: "Passenger", "Whiplash", "Mmm Papi". AngelOfDestiny (talk) 13:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I hate to say that "other stuff" rationale does not work, but I have some responses to your points:
 * Chart positions do not warrant notability in its own right (see WP:NSONGS).
 * Live performances also do not guarantee notability unless the performance is widely covered by the media. Most of these articles have the same structure: background (album production) → composition (album reviews) → critical reception (album reviews) → some lower-tier chart positions
 * I am pretty sure the "buzz" is limited to a certain audience and certainly not of public interest. If you can prove there are standalone third-party coverage on the songs (i.e. single reviews, analysis on song structure/lyrical content etc.), then feel free to improve the articles. I am not seeing sources that are "not only reviews", besides sources on the conception of the albums and certainly not the songs per-se.
 * If you find articles that fail notability, you can feel free to proceed to nominate them for deletion yourself. Some of the articles here were nominated by myself for GANs years ago, and now as WP:NSONGS indicate, they shouldn't have existed in the first place. And regarding the songs that you cited, they are not under my watchlist, so thank you for raising my attention. I will sure nominate them for deletion/redirect if I find them unsatisfactory of notability requirements. HĐ (talk) 14:14, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Update: I don't understand why you brought up the issue with Taylor Swift songs' articles, but from first glance the existing Taylor Swift song articles qualify for notability. There is no series of album tracks from a single album (even "It's Nice to Have a Friend", which received a standalone review by Billboard, or "This Love (Taylor Swift song)", which went platinum in the U.S., do not have respective articles because they do not have significant third-party coverage, which fails notability), and articles on B-sides all make sure that they satisfy notability (i.e. "Innocent (Taylor Swift song)" is about the Kanye West controversy and its performance at the VMAs did generate commentary instead of mere reporting, or "The Last Great American Dynasty" has more than two interpretations regarding its lyrics). So there you go, HĐ (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that some of those articles you mentioned should be deleted/redirected too. Foxnpichu (talk) 19:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Redirect all to respective parent albums. Aside from album reviews (which don't count towards notability), I'm only seeing breif mentions for "Red Hot Kinda Love", "Glam", "Lift Me Up", and "Walk Away", and none of these on their own are enough to warrant articles for the tracks. Charts (or lack thereof) are entirely moot in this case. The listed songs simply never qualified for separate pages. I also suspect that at least part of this came from fans wanting to write about music they liked, and while I'm sure they meant well, they would've been better off working on the album prose and such. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:26, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:04, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:32, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect all - the "Keep" !votes are kind of missing the point of GNG, ATA and OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Foxnpichu (talk) 19:05, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. Arguments such as "Keep because these songs are favorite of many" should not be counted towards the consensus, HĐ (talk) 05:31, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Doesn't keeping stuff based on fan favouritism kinda indicate fancruft? Foxnpichu (talk) 00:28, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is fancruft. I hope the coordinators don't count these keep votes towards the decision, HĐ (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Unlikely. Remember that it is the reason behind the !votes, not the numbers. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect all of these to their respective parent albums. My reading of the WP:NMUSIC guidelines is that it's somewhat exceptional for a song released on an album to be notable independently of the album or the artist.  The song itself would have to be a reasonable subject of research, having its own independent coverage in teritary sources.  These articles, on the other hand, are fundamentally WP:ALLPLOT, if I can apply the principles of that here - descriptions of the songs themselves, who created them, detailed and quoted critical reception of each individually, but void entirely of the social and cultural context around the songs.  Which is probably because there isn't any, because they are all part of the same artistic project.  They are not independently significant.  The "background" sections are backgrounds on Aguilera, not the songs - all but Glam and Lift Me Up thread an indentical sequence of facts (Bratman, Burlseque, The Voice, Maroon 5, Jay Leno), reinforcing the lack of individual distinguishing and significant context that might render an individual song notable.  The background information would be more appropriately covered in either articles about the albums or about Aguilera herself.  But there is little to merge - all these articles collectively have little content specific to their subject.  What content there is relies too heavily on verbatim restating quotes of critics.  Some of the articles document specific performances of the songs - planned performances, commercially intended, and no more notable than any other curated live event.  If such events are notable, the live performance of a particular piece could be included there if important, but we are not building a WP:DIRECTORY for the cross-referencing of songs with each live performance of those songs no matter how notable the artist.  In the case of Walk Away, the article relies on the sheet music of the song as a primary source reference for what little song-specific context exists.  Nearly every source in Lift Me Up is about Bionic (the album in which it was published), not the song.  There's nothing here to write about, and frankly the fractal creation of articles about nearly every song by an artist just to catalogue their respective performances and repeat the words of their critics in detail while recapitulating (in each) the life of the performer mostly in her own words is inappropriate here.  With nothing to merge, redirect.  FalconK (talk) 00:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your well-constructed argument, . Your comment is very much appreciated. HĐ (talk) 03:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.