Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Releasing the Bonds


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite Jbhunley and Collect's interesting discussion, this has been relisted twice, and no one is advocating keeping the article. Deor (talk) 14:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Releasing the Bonds

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Not enough coverage in independent, reliable sources to verify or sustian article. Fails Wikipedia's General Notability Guidelines and WP:NBOOK. The only thing resembling an independent review I could find is in a Huffington Post blog. Others are from the publishers website or a sales site. This book was published by the author's own publishing house so should be considered self published. J bh Talk  22:38, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions.  J bh  Talk  22:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions.  J bh  Talk  22:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  J bh  Talk  22:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment I can find no source for Aitan being owned by Hassan at all, alas. Collect (talk) 21:33, 1 January 2016 (UTC)   Googlescholar finds 79 citations for the book in journals    so it is not incredibly difficult to see such uses of the book.  Collect (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If you look at the source in the article you will notice the 10 or so footnotes saying the publisher is Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville, MA . A confirmatory look at the book's Amazon entry  again shows the publisher to be Freedom of Mind Pr . Looking at FreedomOfMind.com  you will see it is his company consisting of Steven Hassan and one other person. Searching the web for Aitan Publishing company  shows its top search result to be the Wikipedia article on this book and I see no evidence it has even published, based on the prior refs,  this book. Perhaps in your look for a source to link it to Hassan you found something different. Eighty cites is far from significant in the field of psychology or even cultic studies where, based on a very cursory look,  cites seem to average in the mid to high hundreds  and even his other book has 280 .  J bh  Talk  12:54, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I looked the book up and the publisher is listed as Aitan.  And since I found books it has published, I fear you simply are having a Google failure.  Now you may well feel 79 cites is insignificant, but it is far from the implicit "one" you found.  More to the point - arguing with anyone who leaves a comment at an AfD you start is a tad unlikely to impress either that person or others who decide to give opinions.   And one might note the article being discussed itself states the publisher is Aitan - did you elide that?  In any event - kindly do not try "answering" every comment at an AfD, as someone might feel you were "invested in removal" and not in "discussion". (Product details: Hardcover: 416 pages; Publisher: Aitan Publishing Company (May 2000); Language: English; ISBN-10: 0967068800; ISBN-13: 978-0967068800)   same.    same.  How many do you need before accepting this fact?  No other books from that publisher? ,  etc.  Major publisher?  Probably not.  "Owned" by Hassan?  No cites for that claim for sure.   Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:47, 2 January 2016 (UTC).
 * Per your kind and polite request for more information: From the International ISBN Agency's Global Register of Publishers Freedom of Mind Press - ISBN Prefix978-0-9670688, Alternate Contact Name Steven Hassan you will note the ISBN of the book is 0967068800/978-0967068800 which is the first number in the issued block and searches by ISBN for that number bring up Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves  Publisher: Freedom of Mind Pr. So the book, by Steven Hassan, is published by a publisher which he registered with International ISBN Agency. Maybe Aitn Publishing is a DBA, maybe it is a case of citogenesis where people pulled it from our article but whatever the case is this book carries an ISBN (the very first one in fact) issued to Freedom of Mind Press and Steven Hassan is the contact of record for Freedom of Mind Press in the Global Registry of Publishers. If you did not want an answer then why in the hell did you make a comment on a page which I am the only participant on questioning a statement I made?  (That was a rhetorical question)  J bh  Talk  17:13, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Clearly you show that sources give two separate and distinct names for the publisher. I doubt, however, that multiple sources dating to the initial publication managed to copy the Aitan Publishing reference from Wikipedia. And the Abebooks stores almost invariably use the publisher whose name is actually printed in the book. Presumably both names are correct,  though "alternate contact name" is not precisely the same as "owner"? Collect (talk) 19:14, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Major distributor PGW (Publishers Group West) cites two ISBN prefixes for Aitan: 0-9650782 and 0-9670688.  PGW is a reliable source for the publishers it distributed. Collect (talk) 20:31, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The ISBN is from the range assigned to Freedom of Mind Pres not from Aitan Publishing (which has only the range of 978-0-9650782 assigned according to the Global Register of Publishers which is an arm of the organization which issues and records ISBN prefixes.) . We also know that  From Steven Hassan. He is also the Executive officer  and the two offices of record are about a mile and a half from each other. The main point of the nomination is the book seems to me to pass none of the criteria set out in WP:BKCRIT and whether or not it is "self-published" or not is of academic interest at best. What say you we now let others comment on this. We have wasted enough time and text on this exercise.  J bh  Talk  21:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Tell that to PGW http://www.pgw.com/home/downloads/transition/pubsNOTtoperseus0307isbn10.pdf which seems to have a different opinion.  Note the source you give nicely states it may have errors in it.   And I find absolutely no connection between Hassan And Aitan Publishing Company which used PGW as its distributor according to PGW.  It is likely that the initial intended publisher was FoM and that the actual issuing publisher was Aitan which issued the book using the initial FoM ISBN (which is an accepted practice). But clearly your mileage varies - the fact remains that a significant number of other people have cited the book in scholarly articles. Collect (talk) 21:46, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Personally I get more mileage from the Register since they claim "(t)he data in the Global Register is compiled and revised at least annually". It might be fun to track down the discrepancy just to see. I checked WorldCat and it shows only FOM as publisher for all listed editions and that about uses up my curiosity - but something is definitely out of whack. We can agree to disagree on whether 80 citations is significant but I do not think number of citations a book has relates to its notability. Two significant independent reviews is usually how books pass NBOOK. I was a bit surprised this one did not have any but it is only in 95 WorldCat indexed libraries  hence the nomination. Have a good evening.  J bh  Talk  22:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 07:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:40, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - non notable SELFPUB. -   Cwobeel   (talk)  21:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete: Appears to be self or corporate-promo that could not garner any content since 2007 when the page was started.  The book is mentioned in a footnote in [Modern Religions: An Experiential Analysis and Exposé, if that helps.  Otherwise, not notable by RS. [[User:Sfarney|Grammar&#39;sLittleHelper]] (talk) 00:48, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not enough in-depth coverage from independent reliable sources to meet notability requirements.  Onel 5969  TT me 12:58, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.