Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Remember the Laughter


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mackensen (talk) 13:16, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Remember the Laughter

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Would have prodded, but it's already been returned to this state from a redirect. No indication of notability. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC.  Onel 5969  TT me 01:43, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Redirect to Ray Toro as the album itself doesn't appear to be notable currently as per WP:NMUSIC. PriceDL (talk) 05:51, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:50, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Redirect or delete?

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  J 947  01:47, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable musician releases first solo album, and the media have written about it.
 * NME announcement
 * DIY magazine announcement
 * ABC News Radio announcement
 * Altpress featured article, album review and single preview
 * Upset magazine review
 * Musicology magazine review
 * On Record magazine review
 * So let's keep this album article, and move some of these references into it. Binksternet (talk) 00:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Kellymoat (talk) 02:05, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * What is your reasoning behind this vote? Just putting delete is not exactly a compelling argument. Aoba47 (talk) 18:57, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * oops. For some reason this didn't make it to my watchlist. I didn't know there were updates.
 * Truth be told - WP simply has too much non-sense. WP is not free advertising for Hollywood. Let them pay for their own web domains if they want to advertise every single album. There is nothing in the article, or the references posted above (but they aren't posted in the article) that make this notable. It is, very simply, an album by an ex-singer of a D-list band.
 * The sources above do provide a weak indication that this album has received at least some coverage from outside sources. It may not be enough to keep the article around, but at least it is a sign of something. Also, your opinion about "WP simply has too much non-sense" is not relevant to this discussion. The discussion should be kept on notability as achieved through sourcing or WP:NMUSIC. I can understand the argument to redirect/delete this if you believe the above sources do not indicate enough coverage (as I am on the fence about it as well and opted for a "weak keep"). Aoba47 (talk) 19:08, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Obviously, if it passed the smell test, no one would even be questioning it. So, outside of the obvious, the fact that we are giving free advertising to songs that are considered "filler" is something that we (perhaps on a larger venue than this particular page) need to address. Why is this guy notable outside of his old band, and why are we giving any attention to the album. His own website doesn't even devote as much attention to it as we have. He doesn't have to, he has us to do it for him. Kellymoat (talk) 20:44, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Except commentators on here are providing sources that establish at least some sense of notability for this subject. Your issues with this site providing "free advertising" is not relevant to this discussion. As I said before, this discussion should focus on whether or not there are enough sources to pinpoint whether or not this has received significant coverage from outside, third-party resources. Anyway, I will not clog up this AfD anymore with further discussion about this as we just have a difference of opinion, and I respect your viewpoint on this. Aoba47 (talk) 13:35, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep per sources provided by Binksternet. Aoba47 (talk) 14:49, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:13, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Ray Toro. Per nom, fails WP:NMUSIC; the first release of a somewhat notable musician, yet the album itself is not notable.  Sekyaw  (talk)  21:56, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per the sources found by Binksternet. The sources provide in-depth coverage and analysis of the album. Here is a quote from the Alternative Press article: "The scope of the album is remarkably diverse, thereby pretty much destroying any preconceived notion of what people may expect from Toro. While not a “concept album” per se, Laughter is loosely framed around the story of an older man visiting his childhood home and hearing a familiar melody coming from the house. He follows the sound and discovers a box of things the man’s father left behind that sparks memories of his life and the lessons he learned. Musically, there are a few moments where Toro throws down sweet six-stringed shred, but Remember The Laughter really focuses on his songwriting skills, from the pastoral prog rock of the title track to new-wave energy bursts (“Isn’t That Something,” “Take The World”) to blues rock jams that would sound great on a playlist between the Rolling Stones and the Fabulous Thunderbirds. It’s ambitious, alluring and all Ray." This provides substantial analysis about the album's genres. Here is a quote from a The Record article: "The start of the album ponders around light guitar melodies and very upbeat Toro vocals. ‘Isn’t That Something’ screams the most ‘single worthy’ track on the album and for an extra touch, has a nifty little Toro guitar solo that might give My Chemical Romance fans of old something to reminisce at. By the time you reach the second interlude ‘Ascent’, there’s a pattern starting to emerge, one of a life being told in single memories separated by interludes throughout the album. One of the later interludes ‘Eruption’ depicts a rather dark image of violence, possibly including someone close to the character, as sirens can be heard behind an emergency services call. ‘The Great Beyond’ fits seamlessly with Toro’s voice, slightly pained but still melodically full of life. Speaking of full of life, ‘Hope For The World’ starting off with the lyrics; “turn off the sound of war and hate.” The track is filled with lovingly wrote lyrics and something Toro could be proud to leave embedded in the album. The six minute long title track is slow to build up, but hits its peak four minutes in with Toro screaming “remember me” followed by a minute and a half long guitar solo fading into rather soothing baby mobile twinkles." This provides detailed analysis about the albums' melodies. Cunard (talk) 07:09, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Its previous coverage was arguably due to him being a former member of a major band, but the album itself still fails WP:NMUSIC criteria. The album still has weak coverage for it to be considered notable and it was not that successful as it has not charted in any major charts in any country.  Sekyaw  (talk)  13:39, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Notability (music) says: All articles on albums, singles or other recordings must meet the basic criteria at the notability guidelines, with significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

Specific to recordings, a recording may be notable if it meets at least one of these criteria:
 * 1) Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble who created it.
 * 2) * This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries except for the following:
 * 3) ** Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about the recording, and all advertising that mentions the recording, including manufacturers' advertising.
 * 4) ** Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases. I believe the sources provided here clearly demonstrates that the album meets the first criterion in that it has received significant coverage in reliable sources. The album therefore is notable. That the coverage is allegedly because he is a former member of a major band does not affect the fact that this album has received significant coverage in reliable sources so meets the notability guideline. Cunard (talk) 05:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Cunard on this. If the album has received coverage due to his past membership in a major band, then the album still has received coverage and obtains some level of notability. Aoba47 (talk) 15:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete The coverage is not sufficient to meet WP:NALBUM. The sources provided are either not RS or are brief mentions of the recording. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.