Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Renee Bull (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. postdlf (talk) 18:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Renee Bull
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Nominate for deletion per all the delete arguments in the group nomination  because the closing admin requires we do this all again. Content almost 100% contributed by a banned sock in violation if the user's ban. Legacypac (talk) 14:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: Related discussion is at Deletion review/Log/2015 January 31. Related renom AFDs (all for articles started by one editor) are:


 * 1) Articles for deletion/Madison Guthrie (2nd nomination)
 * 2) Articles for deletion/Kimberly Agron (2nd nomination)
 * 3) Articles for deletion/Talyah Polee (2nd nomination)
 * 4) Articles for deletion/Ashley Golebiewski (2nd nomination)
 * 5) Articles for deletion/Renee Bull (2nd nomination)
 * 6) Articles for deletion/Lizzy Olsen (2nd nomination)
 * 7) Articles for deletion/Ashleigh Lollie (2nd nomination)
 * 8) Articles for deletion/Brooke Fletcher (2nd nomination)


 * Related, new AFDs (for articles started by different editors) are:


 * 1) Articles for deletion/Audrey Bolte
 * 2) Articles for deletion/Brittany Wiser
 * 3) Articles for deletion/Jillian Wunderlich
 * 4) Articles for deletion/Michelle Leonardo


 * -- do ncr  am  22:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Delaware-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep because the nominator fails to give a reason for deletion. The nominator only brings up WP:DENY and if the article fails that, then he has no rationale....William 16:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the nom's reasoning coulda been spelled out here explicitly, but re-stating from nom's link, nom also views that the subject fails WP:NMODEL as only notable for one event (winning a state level pageant). WP:NMODEL Criteria: Actors, voice actors, comedians, opinion makers, models, and celebrities:
 * a) Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.
 * b) Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following.
 * c) Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment.
 * -- do ncr  am  14:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * comment after I closed the group afd on the basis of likely unequal notability, I advised renominating individually a few at a time; renominating in very large groups the way these are being done is not a good idea, because it defeats the purpose of letting people have time to look for individual sources. (personally, though,  I think sufficient sources are likely to be found only when there is  a substantial subsequent career).  DGG ( talk ) 16:08, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Personally I think - A. the nom should've waited a few weeks, and B. nominate some like 5 not 10, All that aside Most were created by a sock/SPA who appeared to be affiliated with these pagent contests, No evidence of notability, Fails GNG. – Davey 2010 Talk 21:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - I failed to mention above I also believe we don't need every pagent in the world on here, All that aside 's found a hell of a lot of sources and so despite my opinions I don't really wanna see someones actions here go to waste especially when not only has sources been found but they've also been added to the article, So as well as that and the fact it now passes GNG I have to say Keep. – Davey 2010 Talk 03:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment (changed back and forth here, vote Redirect below) "Votes" citing actual sources would be more helpful. The Google news search link yields several local news articles currently, including this WDDE article that asserts significance for her being the first African-American to "hold" the title of Miss Delaware USA, but another African-American was crowned in 1991 (althought she resigned quickly for some undisclosed reason).  Although there's some more local news hits than I saw for another model in this series of AFDs, they seem just to be other coverage of 2012 tournament in which she is listed as a contestant and winner of swimsuit competition, or of 2013 competition where also listed as a contestant, among with all the others.  Does not pass wp:NMODEL;  has not yet had the "substantial subsequent career" that DGG notes would be necessary. -- do  ncr  am  05:22, 1 February 2015 (UTC)  -- do  ncr  am  14:48, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep This article has two references now. Passes WP:GNG.    WordSeventeen (talk) 00:22, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Two sources repeating the same one event do not suffice, IMO. -- do ncr  am  21:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirect (revised from "Delete"), Deletion justified per John Pack Lambert's comment in the similar Ashleigh Lollie AFD (linked above), that this person is not in the news in any permanent way, there is just the one event. One of the two sources in the article states that she hopes to graduate from one of two universities, but I doubt we'll ever know if she graduated or not.  I agree, there's no indication this person is in the news for anything more than one event.  I don't see substantial coverage in the article, or in the Google News search linked above.  It would not suffice if her winning a state-wide crown was reported in even more local news resports.  It won't change if there's local coverage of her appearing at local events, as part of the one-year "reign" as Miss whatever is her title.  It's still one event;  it's appropriate to draw the line that this level does NOT merit coverage in an encyclopedia.  Also she does not meet wp:NMODEL, per the nomination. -- do  ncr  am  21:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ThaddeusB's suggestion that it could be redirected to Miss Delaware USA, where this is a table row for her and a so-far-empty "Notes" column, is okay by me. A wp:anchor at that row can be provided as the redirect target. -- do  ncr  am  22:33, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been asked twice at my Talk page by editor to come change my vote here in this AFD, after Dravecky reported more sources below in this AFD and added them to article.  And Dravecky likewise contacted Davey2010,,  who each modified their votes in response.  I'm a bit uncomfortable about this pressure, let me call it, though I am not sure of etiquette for this.  Rhododendrites at their Talk page stated:

"I did take another look. The Promote Peace Now articles are good since they add another angle, but I don't agree that these demonstrate notability. So I've changed my !vote from delete to weak delete. It's looking like it's going to be kept, so regardless of my opinion, nice job [potentially] rescuing an article."


 * I also did review the stated sources after the first request, and noted they add coverage of an idealistic "Promote Peace Now" event that Renee Bull led in some way i think as a high school teenager before the pageant-winning event. But the 2 items covering that were cheery news items announcing the PPN event beforehand, and it apparently didn't rate coverage of what happened, whether it was a total bust or a significant accomplishment.  I feel this still is case like DGG suggests, where post-pageant accomplishments need to be shown, so I stay with my vote of "Rdirecct".  However in this edit I also correct a "Delete" vote further above to "Comment", as I apparently had two votes showing.  I ask the closer to really consider closing with "Redirect" rather than giving credit to the prior minor event. -- do  ncr  am  14:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My apologies if you felt any unintended pressure. I asked only for reconsideration as, per WP:HEY, the article had been significantly improved since your !vote. My second note was just to alert you that you had inadvertently !voted twice without striking the first one. - Dravecky (talk) 15:44, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Redirect/merge to Miss Delaware USA. Notability is possible, but unproven at this time.  That doesn't mean we can't have two sentences about her (the entirety of the current article) at a more general page. Incidentally, BLP1E doesn't apply - the guideline is intended to protect private individuals caught up in a news event, not prevent bios about people known only for one thing (which is the vast majority of notable people). --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:04, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - After improvements by, there is now enough sourcing to prove notability and enough content to justify a standalone article. Good work. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:18, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mr. Guye (talk) 02:33, 9 February 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 *  Delete Weak Delete - Fails GNG/NMODEL, BLP1E issue, DENY, etc. No objection to an appropriate redirect, of course. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 20:30, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as sufficient references from reliable third-party sources (,, , , , , etc.) exist (and on topics other than her pageant victory) to push this article across the WP:GNG threshold. - Dravecky (talk) 21:50, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: I have used these and other reliable sources to significantly expand and improve this article. I respectfully request than any interested editor review the article in its current state and reconsider their !vote in this matter. - Dravecky (talk) 03:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as a WP:GNG pass per the research work done by Dravecky. Ejgreen77 (talk) 23:18, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon  02:16, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep improved article passed GNG. Artw (talk) 02:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.