Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Republic of Morac-Songhrati-Meads (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was merge with Kingdom of Humanity. Sandstein 18:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Republic of Morac-Songhrati-Meads

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

I suspect this is a hoax. It seems implausible, has very few incoming links, and I couldn't find much of any serious note on Google. A previous AfD in 2005 failed to validate the article yet strangely resulted in it being kept. Hopefully this article can be cleaned up and referenced, if not it should be deleted. --kingboyk 22:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Nominator's note: On evidence presented below, I'm happy to agree to a merge and redirect. Suggested targets seem to be Kingdom of Humanity or Spratly Islands. I'm not sure which is more appropriate; more input would be welcome. --kingboyk 13:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge (and redirect) with Kingdom of Humanity. Looks like a continuation of the same thing, but not a hoax any more than micronations in general could arguably be described as hoaxes.  Besides the reliable sources that are already in the article, the "Republic" is apparently discussed in a 1982 publication of the Philippines Cabinet Committee on the Law of the Sea Treaty (just to show that it was taken at least somewhat seriously by other nations in the region).  The book Law, Power, and the Sovereign State: the Evolution and Application of the Concept of Sovereignty (by Michael Ross Fowler, Penn State Press, 1995) treats Morac-Songhrati-Meads and the Kingdom of Humanity as the same thing, as does the single entry for the two in The United States in Asia: A Historical Dictionary (David Shavit, Greenwood Press, 1990). PubliusFL 22:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reliable sources in the article. I see an angelfire site and another home page. There's a book, but alas I don't have access to it. Do your sources corroborate this line? - "Schneider and his cabinet all drowned when the ship they sailed on sank in a typhoon near Mindoro Island". --kingboyk 23:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know about that specific line, but I don't see any reason to assume bad faith. We shouldn't establish a rule that "reliable sources" means "online sources," and it seems clear that the book does talk about Morac-Songhrati-Meads.  On pages 168 and 169.  I can also tell from Google Books that it actually calls it "Kingdom of Humanity/Republic of Morac-Songhrati-Meads" which is more evidence for a merger.  Also, The United States in Asia (which I cited above) uses the Samuels book as one of its sources.  The United States in Asia also cites The Annals of the Philippines Chinese Historical Association 6 (1976): 63-67.  Bottom line, I think it's fairly clear that it's not a hoax, there are probably more reliable sources available offline than what's already in the article, but a single article should be enough to cover both the Kingdom of Humanity and the Republic of Morac-Songhrati-Meads. PubliusFL 23:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No of course not, but it still smells like a hoax to me. Not the micronation so much as the article. Also, there should be multiple non-trivial sources. If we can't find owt at all on this it's not verifiable. --kingboyk 23:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Part of a walled garden of vanity "micronations" publicized on websites of their founders/ "heads of state". Fails WP:N and WP:A. Edison 23:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Have you actually read the article? This is not a vanity website thing at all, as the entire verifiable history of the micronation predates the Web.  There is no website of its founder/"head of state."  And there are reliable sources cited in the article and discussed above, so I'm a little confused by your bald assertion that it fails WP:A, at least insofar as you're using that as a reason to delete rather than trim to what can be verified. PubliusFL 23:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * keep part of a comprehensive group of articles on micronations-- adequately sourced.DGG 03:37, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 *  Keep Merge and redirect (per my comments below) The sources listed by PubliusFL need to be cited in the article. I have no access to a library that would have them but the chances that they are all false are pretty slim. -- killing sparrows  (chirp!) 07:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently though the books treat them as the same entity, so the obvious result would be to merge. Let's see what Publius can come up with. --kingboyk 14:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes, I see what you mean. A merge and redirect to K of H seems valid as M-S-M is the successor to K of H.-- killing sparrows  (chirp!) 16:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you change your recommendation to merge then please? Thanks. --kingboyk 16:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge with Spratly Islands. --Gene_poole 13:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and propose merge/redirect/expansion in the normal manner. John Vandenberg 15:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It might be more helpful to deal with the merge now in the AFD, then one debate takes care of it all, especially as consensus seems to be leaning that way. --kingboyk 15:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge this, unlike many micronations, was an attempt to hold territory. SchmuckyTheCat 15:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge, overly specific topic.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  13:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.