Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rescue of Dustoff 65


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Rescue of Dustoff 65

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Don't see how this rescue of the crew of one helicopter in the Vietnam War meets WP:GNG, 5,607 helicopters were lost in the war, nothing about the loss of this crew or their rescue justifies its own page. This was a minor action during Operation Carentan and I've merged any relevant information into that page. Mztourist (talk) 07:18, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 07:20, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Vietnam-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Doesn't merit its own article, and I doubt it even merits a mention in Operation Carentan. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Article According to WP:GNG "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list." According to the references listed on the page Rescue of Dustoff 65 a 175-page book was written on the subject titled "Rescue under fire: the story of DUST OFF in Vietnam". According to the Amazon page listing this book for sale [] it states " It is almost impossible to capture, in a single word, the enormous impact Dustoff had on the Vietnam War. However, John Cook has done it in a most compelling, sensitive manner. Here, for the first time, is one of the most incredible stories produced by V" Conclusion: The fact that a 175-page book was written on the topic that claims this particular incident had an enormous impact on the Vietnam War not only indicates the article should be kept but in fact, it most likely requires expansion to illustrate these facts. Boston1775 (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You are misrepresenting "Rescue under fire: the story of DUST OFF in Vietnam", that book is about Army helicopter medical evacuation in the Vietnam War, not specifically about this event. Dustoff is significant, the Rescue of Dustoff 65 isn't. Mztourist (talk) 04:31, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes you are correct. There was no intention to misrepresent the book. However as far as I understand Operation Dustoff and Operation Carentan were not the same operation even if there was some overlap. My suggestion would be to change the title of "Rescue of Dustoff 65" to "Operation Dustoff" and then expand the article so it does not just focus on 1 helicopter. Boston1775 (talk) 10:12, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - You are missing some information here. "Dustoff" was not a single military operation (there was no "Operation Dustoff"), it is a US Army term that just means Medevac and we already have an article on that. - Ahunt (talk) 14:40, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Dustoff might not have been the name of an actual singe operation but as you mentioned it refers to "Army Aeromedical Evacuation in Vietnam" and the United States Army's Center of Military History published a 148-page report which you can access here https://history.army.mil/html/books/090/90-28-1/CMH_Pub_90-28-1.pdf. I did a search and saw there is a Wikipedia article title Casualty evacuation which is a poor title since the lack of the word Vietnam or Dustoff in the title means the article could be about casualty evacuation from any era by any means. Regardless of the helicopter evacuation of the Vietnam War deserves its own article (and the title of such an article can be left for another debate). Also, two of the Dustoff pilots were recipients of the Medal of Honor which is not mentioned in the article titled "Casualty evacuation". Those pilots are Capt. Patrick H. Brady and CW3 Michael J. Novosel who are both mentioned in the Center of Military History report. I stand by my previous suggestion. Retitle the article "Rescue of Dustoff 65" to either "Operation Dustoff" or something like "Dustoff - Medical Evacuation in the Vietnam War" and expand on the material. Once that article is started then deleting the lesser events might seem reasonable.Boston1775 (talk) 19:26, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - There never has been anything called "Operation Dustoff", so re-titling this article to that is not an option. Also we don't rescue an article up for AfD by changing the title, the subject and all the content in it to something totally new. If you think that there should be a new article on Medevac operations during the Vietnam War, then that might be a good subject for a new article, but the creation of that new article has little bearing on whether this one should be retained or not. - Ahunt (talk) 20:03, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok sounds good. I've been on Wikipedia for a week so thanks for explaining the procedure. Now I agree with you that the page should be deleted and a separate recommendation should be made for a new page which I assume would go through a similar type of discussion??? Boston1775 (talk) 20:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - Actually anyone can start a new article, it doesn't need any discussion. As long as it meets WP:GNG, which that would do so, it should be kept. - Ahunt (talk) 20:54, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete one of many hundreds of Dustoff events in Vietnam, I dont see this as being particualy notable in the big scheme of things. If a new Dustoff article was created about the role of Army medivac helicopter in Vietnam it would not really feature. MilborneOne (talk) 16:22, 6 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.