Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard Landis


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Withdrawn per My76Strat's improvement. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:23, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Richard Landis

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Asserts notability as a prolific producer, but I can't find any non-trivial sources. All sources I found only said "Artist X, working with Richard Landis, released Y." or the like, which does not constitute reliable coverage. Most of the sources in the article don't even mention him at all, and I could find no sources that gave any information beyond "he produced X, Y and Z" — no biographical info, nothing. Allmusic verifies his credits, but gives absolutely no biographical info. Also created and edited almost exclusively by a now indef-blocked editor. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 23:27, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:57, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ETA: Category:Albums produced by Richard Landis was deleted in November 2008 since at the time, Landis did not have an article, nor could I find anything supporting the creation of one. Still the case now. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:04, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep First I must openly admit that the indefed creator of this article is an account I operated under a failed attempt to clean start. The blocking admin left a link to the circumstances. The new account was a reference to As Far as Siam, an album produced by Richard Landis. I was surprised Landis was not the subject of an existing article and set about to create one. Landis is a prolific producer and references do considerably more than merely state his role. Consider: "esteemed US producer and CMA Award winner"; "hit producer"; "Originally Adams and I called the song "Send A Little Lovin'", but Landis suggested we change the title to "Can't Wait All Night", a definite improvement." and many, many more. The 1994 CMA for album of the year is significantly notable and the reference is clear that this award goes to the producer as well as the artist. Perhaps a speedy keep is even more appropriate. My76Strat (talk) 19:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The sources you've cited are not non-trivial third party coverage at all. A few peacock phrases from an individually non-notable singer's website mean nothing. Anyone can call anyone else a "hit producer" and "esteemed" — those words are meaningless. Also, the only hit I found for "Landis" in that entire list was Common Thread: The Songs of the Eagles, which had more than 10 producers and only one track actually produced by Landis. If he won the award himself, then yes — but not when he's splitting it that many ways. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:47, 16 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)




 * Thank you for re-listing the discussion. How about ask Jimbo to decide?
 * That wouldn't be appropriate: this is a community discussion, and appealing to Jimbo on community discussions is not wise - unless he chooses to take interest in the topic itself for discussion ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 11:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete. I found a lot of passing mentions of Landis in connection with records he has produced, but nothing of substance. To me, this indicates that we can mention him in articles about artists he has produced for and records that he has produced, but that we probably should not have a stand-alone article. It doesn't look like there's an article he features in that's prominent enough to redirect to, and I think the search function will do a good enough job of directing readers to articles in which he features. As for the relevant guideline, I'm not quite sure if producers fall under WP:MUSICBIO, but Landis doesn't appear to satisfy any of the conditions there or at WP:BIO. Having said all this, I will be happy to reconsider if anyone can find good sources about him. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 13:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It appears you are likely correct. I am surprised the two billboard articles listed and the references of his 1994 CMA award for album of the year carry such little weight, determining the subjects notability for inclusion. I regret starting this article. My76Strat (talk) 00:12, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I did find the Billboard articles in my search, and the mentions of Landis are only brief both times. I didn't think they counted as significant coverage, but I'll link to them here so that people can judge for themselves. As for the award, I didn't look at it in detail, but if Ten Pound Hammer is right that it was split between ten people then I agree with him that it shouldn't count so much towards notability. Best —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 00:50, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes the award was split. I think it is a synthesis to impose this arbitrary standard that does not exist in policy. At what point does an ensemble become too large for it's accolades and awards to become meaningless to the individual regard. And since you are prescribing policy, how many can share an award before it becomes meaningless? Obviously 10 has been stated, is that the threshold, or does it diverge to 5, 4 or 3? Maybe all shared awards are worthless. Do advise. My76Strat (talk) 02:49, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * When this article is deleted will the closing admin please userfy the article to my user space? Thanks - My76Strat (talk) 01:28, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right, I don't think there's anything in policy about the effect on notability of awards that are split between multiple people. That part is just my opinion, for people to take or to leave as they wish. For what it's worth, I wouldn't prescribe a certain number of people that an award must be split between before it stops being proof of notability - I'd rather judge things on a case-by-case basis. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 02:04, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. In my view a CMA Album of the Year award, even if it's shared with 13 other producers, is sufficient grounds for inclusion. As a side note I think the article would be better if it included a table listing the chart positions and/or awards of the charting and/or award-winning albums he produced and/or performed on, perhaps using the AllMusic reference as a starting point. 28bytes (talk) 03:44, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for commenting here and providing good suggestions for improving the article. I have found several more Billboard references that can WP:RS facts of Landis' accomplishments. Also a 2010 CMAA nomination for album of the year. He probably has produced 7-10 top 10 albums, Several gold records. He has co written music with Peter Allen (musician),  and Lorrie Morgan  Is credited as a musician on Tenterfield Saddler  and many more. Landis clearly meets the following criteria:
 * Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.
 * Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.
 * Has released two or more albums on a major label
 * is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles
 * Has won or been nominated for a major music award.
 * Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition.
 * Has been a significant musical influence on a musician or composer
 * It is an absolute minimizing of his role as producer to disassociate the success of the recordings he has engineered. My76Strat (talk) 05:42, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I would also like to address some points made with the nomination. First the account creator is no longer blocked. I think it is unfair to penalize an article that is good for actions of an editor that may be bad. Secondly there was an assertion that "Most of the sources in the article don't even mention him at all" This is blatantly false. While the assertion suggests deliberate attempts to mask notability regarding this articles subject. I challenge the nominator to show one example where an included source did not mention Richard Landis. And then explain how you concluded that in fact most did not? Also there is the comment: "A few peacock phrases from an individually non-notable singer's website mean nothing." To be a "peacock term". the phrase must be used without attribution. And your suggestion that they are themselves "individually non-notable" is also false. The praise I sourced is from Jasmine Rae and Juice Newton, both considered notable. Stick to policy, and stick with facts, and it becomes apparent that there is no justification to suggest the subject of this article is not notable. My76Strat (talk) 00:51, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have edited the article and added the additional sourced information. I'd like to get that deletion tag off the article so can we come to a decision? I think for the nominator to withdraw his contention would go a long way to legitimize this process. I have done, and am doing my part. My76Strat (talk) 04:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.