Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard Neville, 11th Baron Braybrooke


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 16:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Richard Neville, 11th Baron Braybrooke

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This guy WP:INHERITED a title when his third cousin died three years ago. Having a rich extended family is not grounds for automatic notability, and this lacks significant coverage to warrant an article on him. Reywas92Talk 07:46, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Reywas92Talk 07:46, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Reywas92Talk 07:46, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep he is not notable for having "a rich extended family", nowhere in the article does it even mention wealth. He is a holder of a peerage in his own right, which makes him notable. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 13:56, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Reywas92Talk 19:08, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. A title, especially one of the lower ones, does not confer automatic notability. Being mentioned in passing as a relative of a person who is a relative of the subject of an article really stretches the concept of "source" to the breaking point. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. We keep all peers. Until recently they were all notable anyway per WP:POLITICIAN as members of a national legislature. For consistency's sake, it makes no sense not to have articles on those few who have not sat in the Lords. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:55, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "We keep all peers." Citation please?!?! Literally saying notability is WP:INHERITED here and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, his inheritance of something that used to automatically be in politics (and thereby perhaps receive actual WP:SIGCOV) is not sufficient; Lots of those in List of hereditary peers removed under the House of Lords Act 1999 don't have articles, nor do most of their non-member successors so consistency is not a concern. Please cite a policy, guideline, or established precedent. Reywas92Talk 19:32, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Consensus at a number of previous AfDs for peers who have never sat in the House of Lords. Not every consensus is recorded. Just because not all peers have articles yet does not mean they will not have ever. As you know, Wikipedia is a work in progress. The following are all the AfDs I can find of peers who never sat in the House of Lords. All have been kept unless otherwise stated:
 * Articles for deletion/Geoffrey Somerset, 6th Baron Raglan
 * Articles for deletion/Charles McLaren, 4th Baron Aberconway
 * Articles for deletion/Mark Vernon Powys, 8th Baron Lilford (deleted)
 * Articles for deletion/Rupert Edward Ludlow Bathurst, 4th Viscount Bledisloe (deleted)
 * Articles for deletion/Henry Smith, 5th Viscount Hambleden
 * Articles for deletion/Peter Curzon, 4th Viscount Scarsdale
 * Articles for deletion/Keith Arbuthnott, 17th Viscount of Arbuthnott
 * Articles for deletion/Adrian Buckmaster, 4th Viscount Buckmaster
 * Articles for deletion/Christopher Charles Lyttelton, 12th Viscount Cobham
 * Articles for deletion/Rhodri Philipps, 4th Viscount St Davids
 * Articles for deletion/Thomas Coke, Viscount Coke
 * Articles for deletion/Alastair Gordon, Earl of Aboyne
 * Articles for deletion/Anthony Ashley-Cooper, 11th Earl of Shaftesbury
 * Articles for deletion/Robert Shirley, 14th Earl Ferrers
 * Articles for deletion/Simon Abney-Hastings, 15th Earl of Loudoun
 * Articles for deletion/William Herbert, 18th Earl of Pembroke
 * Articles for deletion/Michael Abney-Hastings, 14th Earl of Loudoun
 * Articles for deletion/Paul Capell, 11th Earl of Essex
 * Articles for deletion/Conroy Ryder, 8th Earl of Harrowby
 * Articles for deletion/James Charteris, 13th Earl of Wemyss
 * Articles for deletion/Myles Ponsonby, 12th Earl of Bessborough
 * Articles for deletion/David Ward, 5th Earl of Dudley
 * Articles for deletion/George Herbert, 8th Earl of Carnarvon
 * Articles for deletion/Charles Stanhope, 12th Earl of Harrington
 * Articles for deletion/Edmund Pery, 7th Earl of Limerick
 * Articles for deletion/Nicholas Ashley-Cooper, 12th Earl of Shaftesbury.
 * Articles for deletion/Patrick John Bernard Jellicoe, 3rd Earl Jellicoe (deleted)
 * Articles for deletion/Hugh Lowther, 8th Earl of Lonsdale
 * Articles for deletion/Nicholas Russell, 6th Earl Russell
 * Articles for deletion/Allen Bathurst, 9th Earl Bathurst
 * Articles for deletion/Nicholas Cunliffe-Lister, 3rd Earl of Swinton
 * Articles for deletion/Henry FitzRoy, 12th Duke of Grafton.
 * Looks like a pretty good illustration of consensus to me. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For one thing, every single one of these that was kept was in March 2014, with most of the same people commenting in all of them. That is not the most robust, enduring consensus. Some comments are even that earls are highly ranked, higher than barons. Quite a few of these do in fact have coverage and it's unclear why they were nominated, I'd even keep them. And we do have comprehensive coverage of all baronies at List of baronies in the Peerage of England. Every barony has an article, and the incumbents can be merged and covered there, like at Baron Braybrooke, without articles for people who have not demonstrated notability. Reywas92Talk 16:54, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's clear you won't accept any argument except your own, so let's wait for other comments. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:11, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And you don't give a damn about WP:SIGCOV. Notability (people) does not say anything about this. Reywas92Talk 18:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What I really give a damn about is common sense and consistency, not non-existent rules that some feel must be enforced without regard to the previous. As my sixteen years of editing will testify. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Times (and standards) change. I've begun looking through that list of yours, and Charles McLaren, 4th Baron Aberconway, is the first of them to revisit the Afd chopping block. I already see several viscounts of equally meager accomplishments, but that's for another day. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:22, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you are suggesting merging, not deletion. Opera hat (talk) 13:17, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Baron Braybrooke. Opera hat (talk) 13:17, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 *  Weak Keep. He appears in UK Who's Who, which meets WP:ANYBIO criteria number three. While I am aware of dependent coverage in WP:ORGIND, UK Who's Who is "The oldest and best-known is the annual publication Who's Who, a reference work on contemporary prominent people in Britain published annually since 1849" (per the current WP Who's Who article). That leads me to believe it is not the scamming vanity projects most Who's Who are today. --Kbabej (talk) 18:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No, the British Who's Who is most certainly not a vanity publication. People are invited to be in it and are not charged for the privilege. They do not apply or pay to be in it as with many similarly named publications. It is considered to be a standard reference work for British biography. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:58, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Necrothesp, that is what I was assuming. --Kbabej (talk) 23:01, 11 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge/redirect to the barony article: clear cut fail of WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Non-independent coverage does not count. buidhe 22:45, 12 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.