Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard O'Shea


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. without prejudice to undeleting and merging to Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition. The article is really about that, rather than being a bio (WP:BLP1E) Scott Mac (Doc) 23:13, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Richard O'Shea

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

The subject is a student who won the 2010 Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition, which seems to be the national science fair of Ireland. I feel that this article should be deleted under WP:BLP1E. Note also that Wikipedia does not have any articles on winners of the Intel Science Talent Search (formerly the Westinghouse Science Talent Search) unless those winners went on to do other notable things. When considering the notability of achievements by children one should take into account the work of their adult mentors. Abductive (reasoning) 20:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Your nomination includes in the last sentence the implication that such a winner is not really deserving of accolade because some grownup must have done a portion of the work. Please strike the soap-box comments and stick to issues of notability or other guidelines or policies.Edison (talk) 20:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I feel that it does go to notability, as it diffuses the achievement. This is why I think that BLPs are to be held to a higher standard; such articles attract criticism which affects a real person. Putting a line through the text won't really take it back, don't you think? Abductive  (reasoning) 21:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One cannot "unring a bell," but striking a line like this removes it from the discussion and lets the AFD consider the notability of the subject rather than irrelevant jealousy.You presented no reliable source stating that some adult actually did the research leading to the prize winning environmentally-correct stove made out of tin cans. Your AFD nomination is thus weakened by your speculation and original research. Edison (talk) 05:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Weak Keep The subject, a high school student, won a national science competition, which gained significant coverage in reliable and independent sources. The coverage was all about the one science competition. This is clearly less notable than a scientist with a long career of achievements. The nomination is flawed by jealous speculation about some phantom adult who somehow made some significant contribution to the work. Edison (talk) 05:33, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That is not assuming good faith. I am not jealous of some teenager. Read the article on the Intel Science Talent Search; it says that the participants are mentored for two years. The YSTE allows external help and requires teacher supervision; they go into detail about that on page 24 here about working in labs and hospitals. I also note that you admit this is a BLP1E. That means delete, and BLP1E is a policy, not a notability guideline. Abductive  (reasoning) 09:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If this is an argument over whether the Intel Science Talent Search and the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition are of similar rank, well it might be worth informing everyone that previous winners of the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition have gone on to win or nearly win the Europe wide equivalent run by the European Commission as seen here, here, here and here (and those are just from 2006 onwards) while the 2005 winner went on to become an overnight millionaire after attracting interest from Canada. Also, the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition gets heavy media coverage at national level each year. However, I presume this is a discussion about the notability of this particular person? -- can  dle &bull; wicke  09:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This one has not gone on to win the EU Exhibition. "Nearly win" means lose. One can have a lot of press for one event, and it is still one event. Abductive  (reasoning) 10:40, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: Agree with the nominator's rationale that this article fails WP:BLP1E. Would have no problems with the article being recreated should he go on to become a famous scientist but I don't feel that he merits a Wikipedia page at this moment in time. -- Big  Dom  19:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:CREATIVE, which explicitly applies to scientists, by a long long shot. His case on WP:GNG is marginal as there is a fair degree of coverage, but balanced against the massive failure to pass WP:CREATIVE, an article on this guy is not warranted at this stage in his career. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, as noted passes the WP:GNG and the win has since generated controversy, including one exchange on national radio (that radio show has had "massive" interest from listeners as recently as last year and stands as the second most popular radio show in a country where radio is a big deal). The nominator's rationale is unconvincing as the sources do not focus on an "adult mentor" so referring to one would violate WP:ORIGINAL and I'm not sure how deleting this because another competition in another country does not have a similar article is an appropriate argument. Also the nature of the win as a national contest which gets significant coverage each year in the papers, radio, television, internet (arguably similar to the winner of any reality television competition) where the winner goes on to compete at European level (seems like a Eurovision Song Contest for scientists). -- can  dle &bull; wicke  22:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete Weak Keep . The article barely passes WP:AUTH, because he did get national (read:significant) coverage.  Also, Abductive, do you think we should have articles for one-hit wonders?  mynameinc (t|c) 16:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Members of a band that had one hit should at best be a redirect to the band. Abductive  (reasoning) 17:04, 25 January 2010 (UTC)'
 * What about one-hit wonder singers, who are only notable for that one song, or actors who are only notable for one film? mynameinc (t|c) 18:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * A one hit wonder might have sold millions of copies, and been heard by tens of millions of people. This is some kid who won a science fair, and aside from his family, friends and schoolmates, nobody has ever heard of him. Abductive  (reasoning) 17:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This science fair receives national coverage in Ireland. That's hundreds of thousands of people, at least.  That's more than "his family, friends, and schoolmates."  This is not a sixth-grader who did the (in)famous paper towel experiment in a school-wide science fair and won.  mynameinc (t|c) 21:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You get my point. In no way is he notable, and he falls under WP:BLP1E. The absence of articles on other science fair winners of any kind or from any nation is for a reason. Abductive  (reasoning) 01:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This young grasshopper has been enlightened. Winning a notable contest doesn't necessarily make him notable.  mynameinc (t|c) 22:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. The subject does not meet any of the criteria at WP:CREATIVE. WWGB (talk) 12:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * He did invent a new type of stove that will could be very useful for people in third world countries. mynameinc (t|c) 21:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that is just WP:CRYSTAL. WWGB (talk) 22:37, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why - is the "absence of articles on other science fair winners of any kind or from any nation" being used as a reason? It is possible that other nations are less serious about competitions relating to this subject and may give them less publicity just like other nations may be more interested in competitions of another variety and give them more publicity. This involves the prize being presented by top-level politicians, government ministers, Presidents, etc. at a ceremony presided over by recognisable names from radio and television. When people win reality television shows it seems they have far better chance of receiving an article. And there are millions of people in Ireland actually (at least), not just hundreds of thousands. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  21:39, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I know the population of Ireland, but how many watch the news? Better safe than sorry.  Changed "will" to "could" to comply with WP policy. mynameinc (t|c) 22:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Possibly more people than might be thought.
 * Radio: The country's most listened to radio programme is about current affairs and celebrated its 25th anniversary last year. Over half were listening to radio in 2006 (those figures are a little dated so sorry about that but to show the importance of radio), this shows more popular radio programmes, including Liveline (where this win was recently subject to controversy, is the second most listened to radio show in the country and the article says it has been described by The New York Times as "the most popular radio call-in program"). Other listed among Ireland's most listened to radio programmes include RTÉ News at One and Drivetime (both on RTÉ Radio 1) as well as The Right Hook and several others (on Newstalk, Today FM etc and that's just national, as you'll have gathered from the above source local radio is even more popular), and the programmes based around current affairs are so great in number that I won't list them all.
 * As for television, well the most watched programme on Christmas Day 2008 was RTÉ News: Nine O'Clock. The Late Late Show features entertainment but even it discusses current affairs, as in the example of tonight's guests including the parents of conjoined twins recently in the news and appearing alongside a Hollywood actor. That's my (hastily thrown together) attempt at explaining that news seems to be a very important form of entertainment in Ireland thus bringing it back to the fact that this gets a lot of coverage each year as demonstrated. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  14:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.