Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard de Klerk


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  bibliomaniac 1  5  04:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Richard de Klerk

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Possibly non notable actor; fails WP:NACTOR. No third party sources so fails WP:GNG. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:54, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep: He's an actor who has been in a number of films and been paid to do so (presumably) so I don't see a lack of notability. Just because few people _here_ (ie wp.en) have heard of him doesn't make him ignorable especially as until he dies or retires he will continue to make more films, so having an article to link to is right and proper. WP doesn't have storage limitations. --AlisonW (talk) 18:49, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , well, he doesn't meet WP:NACTOR, with the lack of third party sources for the actor. We can always restore the article should he become notable later on. --<i style="font-family:'Rock salt','Comic Sans MS'; color: Green;">Tyw7</i> (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 19:11, 7 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Being a working actor is not a sufficient reason for inclusion (that's IMDb's job). He's getting there, but right now it's WP:TOOSOON. The only press notice I see is that he gets a passing mention in an article about his father being accused of scamming a couple. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete being paid to be in multiple films is not the criteria for notability. We need significant roles, the being paid to be in multiple films applies to extras. Having named roles does not make someone default notable. We need sourcing that is reliable and shows more than existence, neither of which IMDb is. It is high time we actually applies GNG rules to actors.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep Weak Keep or Draftify Keep or Draftify: I don't think this article is a lost cause. The subject has had significant roles in films, including CBGB (film) and Repeaters, and a number of recurring TV roles, thereby meeting the WP:NACTOR threshold. As regards WP:GNG, a cursory search shows plenty of mentions in reputable sources, so I am now going to search for more in-depth coverage and may revise my vote depending on what I do or do not find. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:27, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I've found a Variety review for a film in which the subject plays the lead. The link, however, is broken, so I am applying to WP:RX to see if it can be fixed. Dflaw4 (talk) 05:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the review isn't as helpful as I'd hoped it would be: https://variety.com/2009/film/markets-festivals/cole-2-1200476113/. However, I still don't think this article is beyond saving. If the consensus is to delete it, I would suggest Draftifying as an alternative. Dflaw4 (talk) 05:54, 11 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete somewhat per ; there seems to be a misunderstanding among the keep !voters as to the criteria, which is (deliberately) stringent; I also suggest that changes their bolded! vote to reflect their change of opinion.  serial   # 09:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Update: For clarity's sake, I am voting "weak keep" based on a strong NACTOR argument and a weak GNG argument; I have not yet found SIGCOV. If the consensus is to delete, however, I suggest "draftifying" the article to allow others the chance to find sufficient sources. Dflaw4 (talk) 12:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * this is the root of the issue, I suspect, and suggests that 's comments were well-founded. The SNG is not a replacement for GNG, it's conterminous with it. An article doesn't get to fail GNG if it's passed the SNG, or vice versa: the latter merely indicates how/where, in the case of a specialist subject, sustained coverage may be found. serial   # 12:52, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Serial, I am not sure which comments you are referring to, but there is actually disagreement on how GNG and SNG work together. I am not advocating for any particular approach, but because of the good case for NACTOR and the fact that the subject's roles can, at the very least, be verified in reliable sources, I don't think deletion is necessarily required. For your benefit, however, I explained that I would support a draftify instead of a delete—in other words, if the consensus is against me (as it seems to be), I would suggest that we consider draftifying the article as opposed to deleting it outright. I apologise if I was not clear on that. Dflaw4 (talk) 13:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * These comments, in which you admitted to (either) misunderstanding or misusing the notablility guidelines. serial   # 13:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Serial, I did neither. I said I was lenient. I think you are misconstruing what I said. Dflaw4 (talk) 13:22, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Just so. serial   # 13:39, 11 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Updating my vote again: Based on The Province article below, I am now upgrading my vote to "Keep or Draftify", as significant coverage is now emerging. I still suggest "draftifying" if the consensus is to delete. Dflaw4 (talk) 08:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment A film, Cole (film), where the actor had starring role, was in competition in Moscow International Film Festival, was nominated for a Genie award and won a Leo award, so it is a notable film. The actor has 43 credits and was nominated for three Leo Awards. Guest starred on, for instance, Cedar Cove. Кирилл С1 (talk) 17:40, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for finding that, Кирилл С1. I was unable to find the Wikipedia page for the film. Are we able to access the references in that page? They may provide coverage of the subject, especially since he was the lead actor. Dflaw4 (talk) 10:43, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:35, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Not much of an article, and not likely to become one. IMDB isn't reliable for good information.Polyglot Researcher (talk) 01:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)​


 * Comment: One of the sources from the article, Cole (film), provides some significant coverage of the subject, such that I think an argument for WP:GNG can now certainly be made. I invite the other editors—,, , , and Polyglot Researcher—to review the source. The source ("Cole sets up shop in chilly hot spot; Indie feature", by Glen Schaefer, The Province, June 15, 2008) was accessed via ProQuest. Here is the text:
 * ''There's still snow on the tips of the high mountains that loom over this little town. "It's Canada's hot spot," says actor Richard de Klerk, lightly dressed in T-shirt and jeans, his back hunched against the blustery wind that cuts through the Thompson-Nicola region. Variations of that line are repeated all day on the set of the indie drama Cole. On this unseasonably cold day, the community of 350 is a one-joke town. Director Carl Bessai, doubling as his own cameraman, is seated on a dolly rig mounted on rails, for a smooth tracking shot as de Klerk's Cole comes out of a ramshackle house to meet his big-city girlfriend Serafina (Kandyse McClure), pulling up in a Mercedes sedan. McClure, in a sleeveless cotton sundress, admits during a break that she's got the car's heat cranked. The Vancouver-based cast and crew are here for two weeks of filming, after a week spent filming scenes in Vancouver. Written by Adam Zang, a Seattle-based graduate of the Vancouver Film School, Cole is the archetypal story of a young man looking to escape his small-town roots. Bessai and his cast met regularly before filming started, working the script to get specific details into those archetypes, including making Lytton and its surroundings a specific setting for the movie. It's the kind of project the well-schooled Vancouver acting pool can do for little money in between the big-ticket jobs. "It's the lowest budget film I've ever worked on," says Chad Willett, who divides his time between Vancouver, New York and Los Angeles after getting his start more than a decade ago on the teen drama Madison. De Klerk, too, is busy in Vancouver and L.A.-filmed episodic TV, McClure has spent the past four seasons as part of the ensemble on Battlestar Galactica and Sonja Bennett, as Cole's sister and the wife to Willett's character, has logged a series of indie-darling roles in Vancouver and Toronto. Willett signed on as an abusive husband, seeing a challenge to bring some layers to the character. "He can be the easy-to-target bad guy," says director Bessai of Willett's character. "We worked with the actors to get the details right." Willett takes off his baseball hat and shows a detail he came up with -- the classic small-town mullet. "People in Vancouver were looking at me funny, but I fit in here." De Klerk, in his first feature-film starring role, did some pre-filming homework as well, taking a road trip through the surrounding countryside with co-star Michael Eisner, who plays Cole's best friend. They motored a further 60 kilometres up the road to Lillooet before turning back. "You just get a full sense of how isolated the place is," says de Klerk. During filming a fight scene with Willett, de Klerk took a tumble that required a couple of stitches to the inside of his lip. He took it as a good sign that the doctor who stitched him up was also named de Klerk. Later, when the stitches split again, he had to wait several hours for the doctor to come back from Cache Creek. Another method touch for the cast -- Lytton has no cellphone service. When shooting wraps in the evening, cast and crew meet for beers in the motel parking lot or in their makeshift office at the town's parish hall. Willett barbecued burgers for cast and crew one night at his lodgings, and spent weekends camping and fishing to stay in character. Singer-actor Rebecca Jenkins, who plays Cole's mother, invited her law-professor husband Joel Bakan up for a break. "We spent the weekend riding horses, just being cowboys," says Bakan. For Jenkins, the shoot brings back memories of filming the 1989 period hit Bye Bye Blues in rural Alberta. "You're happily stuck out somewhere in jaw-dropping beauty," Jenkins says. "It's so freeing. We all cycle around -- most people brought their bikes up." Bessai's small, nimble crew is barely noticeable in the town, which wasn't the case with the last movie to shoot here. Cole's only artificial touch, oddly enough, is that ramshackle house and gas station on the outskirts. Turns out it's a leftover set built for the 2001 Sean Penn-Jack Nicholson movie The Pledge. The weathered look is painted on. "All three of the motels will tell you that Jack Nicholson stayed there," says Bennett.'' Dflaw4 (talk) 08:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * There is also a reference in Toronto Star review of the film Repeaters: "Mike, played menacingly well by Richard de Klerk". The actor starred in several Canadian films, so he may be notable, and could probably be described as "Canadian indie film star". Besides, he has a starring role in an upcoming film. Кирилл С1 (talk) 15:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Here is an article entirely on actor . There is a list of Leo nominees that includes actor's nomination for Cole (film). There are also other articles with paragraphs concerning actor's other roles, mentions or descriptions of several of his other film works. So, there is significant coverage of actor in various newspapers and on websites. Кирилл С1 (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 23:05, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep meets GNG with sources such as this and this. Besides, who can resist one of Vancouver's most eligble bachelors. Lots of national media coverage for various projects, like Cole, Repeaters, etc. Nfitz (talk) 02:23, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Nfitz, thank you for finding that Variety source; it makes the case for GNG considerably stronger. I hope the editors who have voted to delete will peruse the sources that have been uncovered later in the AfD. Dflaw4 (talk) 11:29, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep per GNG – Thanks to for finding new references. There is now no justification whatsoever for this article to be deleted. VocalIndia (talk) 05:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.