Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ringmail


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was keep. Ifnord 01:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Ringmail
Delete. "Ringmail" is a Victorian-era misconception based on bad research of artwork and effigies. There are no textual references nor surviving examples of "ringmail". Sethwoodworth 22:49, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

This is an authentic variety of ancient armour, being a variation on Scale armour. The only wrong bit is the lack of reference (I would help but all my quotable ones are French) and let's be clear, the Knights of William the Conqueror, as seen on the Bayeux Tapestry did not wear chainmail haubergeons, but indeed ring and scale brognes, as did their forebears in Merovingian and Carolingian times. --Svartalf 00:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * QUICK KEEP WELL, the Broigne is mentioned in a 1980 book by a highly respected French scholar. that gives us a quite citable source, and proves the armor to have historical existence. I don't know anything about victorian era misconceptions, but on the French side, the bets are hedged, and I guess that makes the whole point of this AfD moot
 * While references in English are preferred on en: Wikipedia, references in other languages are quite acceptable if you can't find English-language ones. They're certainly better than a lack of references. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 03:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

(and I'm displacing my earlier bit so as not to be accused of voting twice) --Svartalf 01:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Weak keep That may well be correct but it seems to have become a common term (if only in D&D circles). So perhaps the article should explain how the misconception arose and discuss ringmails' fictional uses.    Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk  23:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. I see no reason why even misconceptions cannot find a place in Wikipedia as long as they are notable enough (and properly identified). And I do know that ringmail is widely used in Dungeons and Dragons and other such games e.g. . GeorgeStepanek\talk 23:34, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep I also first knew ringmail through D&D, but several college professors of medieval history have told me it existed. Article could definitely use a little cleanup though. Draeco 23:54, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep --Terence Ong 04:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

""Additional information:"" Ringmail was at one point thought to be an authentic variety of armor, but only in pre-1950's literature. Here's an article with documentation to my point, and I can cite Blair's book specifically if need be. Sethwoodworth 04:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * merge to chainmail and mention the misconception there; if a full-fleged (sourced!) discussion of the Victorian notion should emerge, recreate. dab (&#5839;) 07:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.