Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rishathra


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was    Keep. There is no consensus to merge below, but, if desired, a discussion toward that end could continue on the talk page. Eluchil404 (talk) 08:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Rishathra

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This fictional topic does not establish notability independent of Known Space through the inclusion of real world information from reliable, third party sources. Most of the information is made up of original research and unnecessary plot details. There is no current assertion for future improvement of the article, so extended coverage is unnecessary. TTN (talk) 17:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete- This article is marginally better than most of the articles on minor aspects of fictional material, in that it suggests a possible real-world impact- fans using the word to describe cross-species sexual intercourse in other works of fiction. However, I can find no reliable secondary sources to substantiate that claim. Reyk  YO!  21:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. The term certainly *is* in use outside of the context of Niven's novels.  (Examples:  ).  While I can't find any sources describing this online, given that the word dates from the late 70s/early 80s and that it reached a peak in popularity around then, I'd expect paper sources to be more important here.  If I get a chance to visit the library in the near future I'll see if any SF reference works carry any discussion of the concept.  As for addressing the rest of the original nominator's concerns, I would if I could understand them: the last sentence appears meaningless to me. JulesH (talk) 23:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, article is a valid subsection in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE of Hominids of the Ringworld, which itself is a subarticle of Known Space. Known Space is clearly a notable subject, and according to WP:WAF "spinout articles [....] usually rely on the coverage of the parent topic, and may lack demonstration of real-world coverage through sources dedicated specifically to those elements."  Is this information to be deleted because its authors followed the appropriate style guidelines? JulesH (talk) 23:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Blog comments generally aren't considered reliable sources; but if you can find something substantial I'll reconsider my position. As for the last sentence of TTN's nomination, what I think he means is this: the article as it stands is no good and there's every reason to believe it won't (and can't) be improved. Reyk  YO!  23:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I realise this; I intended those as simply primary source examples to prove the assertion that the term was in use outside of such context. My suspicion is that anybody who noted the spread of the term into other works did so before the era when such matters were routinely placed on the internet, and therefore there are no internet-hosted sources that we can use.  I'm reasonably confident that there must be paper sources, although given the nature of science fiction fandom it is quite likely that such sources would be self published (and therefore the logical precursors of blogs).  Still... some of authors of the kind of fanzines that covered this could also be considered published experts in relevant fields, meaning they would meet the relevant criteria in WP:V to allow us to use the source.
 * But, I'm rambling to myself... JulesH (talk) 00:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - If the outcome of the debate is to delete, it would probably be more appropriate to merge to Hominids of the Ringworld which already contains a short sentence on this subject and could plausibly be expanded to cover it in more detail. JulesH (talk) 00:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to Hominids of the Ringworld. Edward321 (talk) 00:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge to Hominids of the Ringworld, depending on how extensive commentary cna be. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep If there are any referens for the use outside of Niven's work, then it is not appropriate for a merge. DGG (talk) 05:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Sex and sexuality in science fiction. Ryan 4314   (talk) 06:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge, perhaps, but as the subject isn't currently mentioned at that page, a simple redirect is not appropriate. JulesH (talk) 11:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak keep if there are reliable sources for it's use outside "Known space" works. Otherwise Merge into Hominids of the Ringworld. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per JulesH. Kuralyov (talk) 02:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.