Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rita Vorperian


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. ‑Scottywong | confabulate _ 23:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Rita Vorperian

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Does not appear to meet WP:GNG: "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." All sources now are dependent on Rita Vorperian for content. AbstractIllusions (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete, agree with the nominator, do not see any notability.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:04, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep In addition to being Glendale woman of the year. Rita Vorperian has appeared as a writer and publisher to numerous peer-reviewed journals articles, newspapers, and books. She is an often cited authority in his field, and passes the requirements for articles on WP:ACADEMIC. Her writings are respected by the Armenian diasporan community at large (it has appeared in Beirut, Cyprus, Canada, etc etc. newspapers). I would also like to add that searching her name with Armenian characters on google reveals more results than with English characters. Her community activism is notable too as she is a high ranking member of organizations that are notable in amd of themselves. Proudbolsahye (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment Please reconsider your votes to the additional information I have added to the new "Awards" subsection of the article. On March 25 2011, she was awarded the prestigious Mesrob Mashtots Medal, the highest award of Armenia, from the Archbishop of the Western Prelate of the Armenian church on behalf of Aram I, Catholicos of the Holy See of Cilicia for her literary accomplishments and dedication to the Armenian community. Proudbolsahye (talk) 16:57, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The Meshrop Mashtots Medal is NOT the highest award of Armenia. National Hero of Armenia is.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:00, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Its the highest award for Arts and Culture. National Hero of Armenia is the highest for Military accomplishments. Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really. Pls check the list of recipients.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Many sources claim it is the highest medal, especially for those in dedication to Armenian culture (See:"Armenia’s highest medal", the country's highest award - the Order of St. Mashtots.the highest state award of Armenia "St. Mesrop Mashtots"). Even if you don't agree with me, Mashtots award is still one of the highest ranking medals of the Republic of Armenia. It is handed to recipients by the Catholicos of All Armenians and the President of Armenia. I repeat PLEASE REVISE YOUR VOTES IN ACCORDANCE TO THE NEW INFORMATION I ADDED. Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:23, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I just do not find the info you added makes her notable. And please DO NOT YELL. Thank you.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:27, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:ACADEMIC criteria #2 The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level. P.S. I wasn't yelling at you...I just wanted to raise attention to the fact to all voters of the new additions I added to the article that display her notability. Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:31, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * She is not an academic, so that WP:ACADEMIC does not apply. This is not an academic award. Nobel Prize would make her notable, for instance.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:34, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I can definitely argue that she is academic but I won't have to due to #1 of WP:ANYBIO. Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:39, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If she is academic please tell us in which university she is a professor. I do not think that the Mesrop Mashtots medal qualifies for #1 WP:ANYBIO. WP:GNG could be the best chance for your article, but then we need not only Armenian press or local newspapers, but smth more solid.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not at all convinced that the "Mesrob Mashdots medal" she was given by some church official has anything to do with the "Order St. Mesrop Mashtots" given by the country's president. They have different names and they don't look the same. So what is the evidence that this medal has any significance? —David Eppstein (talk) 04:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * @David Eppstein. The person handing the medal to Rita Vorperian is not just another "church official". Per the Order was bestowed by "Western Prelate Archbishop Moushegh Mardirossian on behalf of His Holiness Aram I, Catholicossate of the Great House of Cilicia." The Catholicos of the Holy See of Cilicia is the "Pope" of the Armenian church. Proudbolsahye (talk) 09:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * @David. Don't know if this would answer your question, but this is from the LA news article I refer to below. "Retired California Supreme Court Justice Armand Arabian, the first Armenian American to serve on the state's highest court, has been honored by the head of the Armenian church for his contributions to public service and scholarship. His Holiness Aram I, Catholicos of the See of Cilicia, bestowed the Mesrob Mashdots medal upon Arabian last Monday at a ceremony in Bikfaya, Lebanon... The award is usually presented in the honoree's home country by a local Armenian organization." I do not have a source, but reading the couple of stories about it leads me to believe that it is the same award and that the source of the award is always the Catholics of Cilicia, but it is presented by different people (i.e. the president when it is diplomatic recognition, local groups when that is appropriate, etc.) But this is just being pieced together and not at all clear. AbstractIllusions (talk) 15:48, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Comment @RightCowLeftCoast...Here are some additional sources that say the Mesrob Mashtots medal is considered a very high ranking or prestigious medal in the least:,).Proudbolsahye (talk) 22:08, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably keep. Seems needlessly deletionist. It's certainly not the case that "all sources now are dependent on Rita Vorperian for content", given the Congressional discussion. I feel in a case where notability is marginal but the article is not a PR puff, it's best to err on the side of caution. Pinkbeast (talk) 18:40, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Neutral, in looking for references, I did not find any significant coverage of the subject of this AfD from multiple reliable sources; what coverage I did find appeared to be passing mentions, therefore the subject does not appear to pass WP:GNG. However, Proudbolsahye has provided a source which claims that the subject was awarded the Mesrob Mashtots Medal, which might be considered a significant award that would make the subject notable per WP:ANYBIO. That being said, I do not know if allvoices.com is a reliable source, and I don't know how significant the Mesrob Mashtots Medal is. So I am neutral regarding the subject's notability.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Based on this article Awards and decorations of Armenia, the medal appears to be a a 6th level civilian award, equal to say the National Medal of Science. Therefore, not being a high level medal I am changing my opinion to Delete.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:08, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Comment @RightCowLeftCoast Those medals aren't in any specific order. The official website doesn't even specify any certain rank of order as well which is alphabetically ranked. Proudbolsahye (talk) 08:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. Insufficient sources as explained by MelanieN below. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:10, 11 March 2013 (UTC).
 * Keep. Though the sources cited don't do much, the subject of the article seems to have been recognized to a degree significant enough to merit an article. Ducknish (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment According to the official website of the Armenian military, the highest title of Armenia is given to Armenian citizens only. Rita Vorperian does not qualify for obvious reasons. Therefore, the Mesrob Mashtots Medal is the highest medal of the Armenian Republic that can be bestowed to her and if she were an Armenian citizen, it would be in the least. Proudbolsahye (talk) 09:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I probably have a less rigorous opinion of what it means to be reported on and discussed in a reliable source independent of the subject - this does not mean, to me, that the source is not allowed to use information from the subject, merely that the source has editorial independence and makes some effort at checking the facts of the situation. In this context, the Armenian government, the local Congressperson and his staff, and the Glendale News-Press will suffice. It's a barely passing thing, though. Ray  Talk 10:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Change to Keep Edit: Not clear to me. I was finding nothing to justify the Mesrob Mashtots Medal as even a notable page or award itself.  Then Google thankfully suggested trying Mashdots instead and I found enough to justify it and change my opinion to keep.  Lexis search revealed: Metropolitan Express News of LA "It is among the highest honors the church gives" and (this really weird one) Deseret News (Salt Lake City) "Kocharyan presented Huntsman with the St. Mesrob Mashdots Medal of Honor, the nation's highest civilian award, and made him an Armenian citizen." With those two sources, I think a very tepid keep is my decision. @Proud: Help out and include alternative spellings of Armenian people and awards if it will help non-Armenian folk find out more about the people and awards (is her name Rita or Rima like the Mesrob page calls her? or both, possibly). Rita herself is still iffy on sources in my opinion, but the award does seem to pass WP:Anybio. Addition: just read David Epstein's comment: for sources above the first was given by the Church (high ranking member) and the second was given by the President, but both are given same name--But yes, if they are different awards, my opinion changes.AbstractIllusions (talk) 15:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * @Abstractillusionist...The Armenian Apostolic Church has two Catholicos ...one in Cilicia and one in Echmiadzin. Both have the same amount of executive power. The same medal is given by the Catholicos of Echmiadzin too. Like here Proudbolsahye (talk) 16:00, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete I'm sorry, I just don't find her notable. Google News search finds a grand total of two mentions of her, both in the Los Angeles Daily News, plus one mention under an alternate spelling at Asbarez.com. She has a PhD, and she taught at UCLA for 17 years - without ever rising above the post of "senior lecturer". She writes for newspapers. She was given a couple of awards - woman of the year in her congressional district, and a medal which is notable enough to have its own Wikipedia article but IMO does not rise to the level of "a well-known and significant award or honor" as specified at WP:ANYBIO. Others may disagree. --MelanieN (talk) 03:16, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep She's a Mashots Medal recipient. Mashots Medal is one of the highest awards of Armenia. That alone automatically makes her notable.  -- Ե րևանցի  talk  22:07, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Could a merge be warranted? Specifically a merge of basic content with the Mashtots medal page. It seems there is some feeling that sources for Rita herself are not great (reflected in comments by ymblanter, RightCowLeftCoast, Xxanthippe, Ducknish, MelanieN, and me). The division is whether the Mashtots makes her notable or not.  It seems if the award is the only thing that would make her notable, a merge to that page of content could be a wise path. Some info would need to be cut, but a brief bio of her on the Mashtots page seems to me a reasonable solution. (I'm still not sure the Mashtots medal is "well-known and significant" (to pass WP:ANYBIO), it may be significant but shouldn't the medal at least have been mentioned once by any of The Times of London, New York Times, AP, AFP (non-obit) to be considered "well known"?) AbstractIllusions (talk) 21:40, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * @AbstractIllusions. I do not agree with the merge. She didn't win an award for doing nothing. The Mesrob Mashdots award wasn't something that fell from the sky. She won an award for her philanthropy, community activism, feminist advocacy and literary works. These are all merits that make a stand alone article. Especially when she has been accredited by House of Representative's in Congress and the Catholicos of the Armenian Church for the above mentioned reasons. Although the award is well known (a mere search of "Mesrop Mashtots Medal" reveals dozens if not hundreds of results), I feel compelled to show some of the notable news sources that have mentioned the medal. Here are some widely recognized newspapers and agencies: (Deseret News "Kocharyan presented Huntsman with the St. Mesrob Mashdots Medal of Honor, the nation's highest civilian award, and made him an Armenian citizen.", BBC: "Miller was awarded the Mesrop Mashtots medal for his remarkable contribution to the development of economic ties between Armenia and Russia." (I found many from BBC), Voice of Russian: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been awarded with Armenia’s St.Mesrop Mashtots Order for his “considerable contribution to the development of the Russian-Armenian cooperation.” Proudbolsahye (talk) 22:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The question wasn't whether she deserved the Mashtots or not, the question was whether she is notable or not? I found most of those same sources (as I noted above and quoted from) and they still don't show that the Mashtots is a "well-known" medal. The few news sources, and they are few sources (particularly if we exclude wire translations like your BBC report which isn't actually from BBC), actually seem to show the exact opposite because every source immediately has to explain what the medal is. That tends to mean that the award is not well-known. Regardless, this isn't a debate about the Mashtots, it is about Rita/Rima.  Regardless of how great she is or how much she has done, she still seems unnotable to me except possibly for the Mashtots medal. That makes me wary.  In the end, I've moved my vote to neutral and will keep it there. It just isn't clear to me based on the sources that she is notable. And I'm not going to make a firm decision based upon the Mashtots to claim she is notable.  If that wikipedia page were better or if it showed up to any substantive extent in international news coverage, I'd think twice. But my closing vote on the issue = Not clear either direction AbstractIllusions (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. Notability not established yet WP:BIO or WP:GNG DavidTTTaylor (talk) 13:57, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.