Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Battle (basketball)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn. North America1000 05:36, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Robert Battle (basketball)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Subject doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:NBASKETBALL. Only a few leagues indicate notability, and none of the leagues listed qualify. No evidence of ongoing significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. Rikster2 (talk) 17:33, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn by nominator - I feel that the sources added by User:Editorofthewiki are satisfactory to meet WP:GNG. Rikster2 (talk) 17:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sunmist (talk) 17:56, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. Sunmist (talk) 17:56, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 02:45, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions. North America1000 02:45, 12 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep I improved this article. He played professionally in several countries and posted good stats. He was a First Team All-CAA selection. There are a number of articles on him in the Philadelphia Inquierer here. Should be a good amount of articles in Spanish since he won a championship there. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 16:51, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Their is a ton of references and sources available about this player that isn't listed in the article...even in Spanish. Recommend adding additional reliable sources to strengthen.Rniterjr (talk) 15:21, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Do tell us the sources. I believe you, but I'd like to add to the article. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 17:20, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * added more sources/references. will continue building more on this articleRniterjr (talk) 19:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep Notable ESPN Worldwide NEWSRniterjr (talk) 19:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Having an ESPN.com stats page does not demonstrate notability. EVERY division 1 college basketball player has one and I can tell you that the majority are not notable. Not sure if Courtside.com is a reliable source or not. Rikster2 (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * CommentHe is NOTABLE. Wikipedia states, "Players are deemed notable if they meet any of the criteria: 1. Have played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure. see WP:FOOTYN Robert Battle is a player for The Liga Nacional de Básquet (abbreviated LNB, and literally in English "National Basketball League") and has it's own Wikipedia Page It is the top level of the Argentine basketball league system. Additionally, Basketball figures are presumed notable if they have appeared in one game as either a player or head coach in the original American Basketball Association, Asociación de Clubs de Baloncesto, Euroleague, National Basketball Association, National Basketball League (Australia), National Basketball League (United States), Serie A, Women's National Basketball Association, or a "SIMILAR MAJOR PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE." see WP:NBASKETBALLRniterjr (talk) 11:40, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * He doesn't meet the guideline today as written - he has played in none of the leagues listed. If you are trying to say that one or more of the leagues he has played in is a "similar league," then demonstrate this is so, it isn't a given. Your best bet is to prove he meets GNG (which the basketball guideline is meant to indicate anyway) by finding independent reliable sources that discuss this player beyond transaction and game reports. This is not soccer, so their guideline that every professional player is notable doesn't factor in. Rikster2 (talk) 11:55, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * He meets the guideline as playing in a "similar league." The official website is http://www.laliganacional.com.ar/laliga/club/quimsa  It clearly lists Robert Battle in the lineup.  You will also find him  here in a more recent article from 9 Sept. 2016. Upon viewing the webpage and just above the title, it lists "LIGA NACIONAL DE BÁSQUET" which is notable in Wikipedia.  This demonstrates that Robert Battle plays for Liga Nacional de Basquet and noted on Wikipedia as the "TOP LEVEL of the ARGENTINE BASKETBALL LEAGUE."  I'd say that this meets a "similar league" as the NBA. This league is also noted on Wikipedia as having been designed similar to the NBA.  Furthermore, The Liga Nacional de Basquet is also mentioned in a separate Wikipedia article Leon Najnudel that this league is the first nationwide yearly professional basketball league in Argentina. Rniterjr (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If the guideline were meant to cover every top level league it would say so. I was involved with crafting the current guideline so I know what the intent was. Its intent us to help editors with little understanding of basketball understand that some players beyond those in the guideline might be notable so not to AfD out of hand. It isn't meant to be a loophole to cover every league not named. If that were the case we'd have a broader guideline like soccer. If you think this guy is notable, demonstrate this by providing sources that prove it. If you can't do that then it doesn't matter if he meets a sport guideline, because GNG supersedes them. Rikster2 (talk) 14:55, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The guideline covers a similar major professional sports league. I'd say that "La Liga Nacional de Basquet" is a "MAJOR PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE"...not solely based on being a top level league, but a national and notable top level league.  I'd recommend the article be removed from AfD and placed in WP:AFI Their is a ton of references and sources available about this player.  Recommend the originator possibly even consult with a language translator for non-English sources.Rniterjr (talk) 15:15, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It covers similar leagues in that said league would receive the same type of media coverage as the four (and only four) current men's leagues included enjoy - the NBA, Australian NBL, Italian Serie A and Spanish ACB. This coverage is what makes it likely that the sources exist to make the assumption that players who play in even one game in those leagues probably meet GNG. If you think the Argentine League gets that level of coverage, you need to provide evidence this is so. I am not going to withdraw this AfD because I still haven't seen sufficient sources in the article or in this discussion that tells me Battle is notable. I did a WP:BEFORE search and it was not compelling. If you think that doing a Spanish-language search will definitely turn up sources that prove this player is notable then I suggest you perform one - I am not the one trying to establish notability for this player. Rikster2 (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia clearly lists Liga Nacional de Basquet of Argentina under Americas in the "SAME CATEGORY" as the NBA. I have proven my case on multiple occasions to demonstrate that this league is equivalent to that of the NBA.  Wikipedia shouts notable for this league.  Josh Martin, NBA Lead Writer for bleacher reporter has ranked this league as #6 of 8 as the Best Basketball League in the World.  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1291287-power-ranking-the-best-basketball-leagues-in-the-world-outside-of-the-nba  Furthermore, Wikipedia also reads that The Argentina national basketball team, officially nicknamed El Alma Argentina[1] (Spanish: The Argentine Soul), represents Argentina in basketball international competitions, and is controlled by the Argentine Basketball Federation. Argentina is the only national team in the FIBA Americas zone that has won the quintuplet crown: FIBA World Championship (they won the first edition, in 1950), Olympic Gold Medal (2004), FIBA Diamond Ball (2008), FIBA Americas Championship (2001 and 2011) and Pan American Gold Medal (1995). They have also won 13 South American Basketball Championships, as well as many youth championships. The Argentine representative was also the first to defeat a United States national team with a full squad of NBA players. They did so by 87–80 in the 2002 FIBA World Championship held in Indianapolis. In that tournament, Argentina came second behind FR Yugoslavia, losing the final in overtime.

Due to the series of good results since the beginning of the 2000s (decade), Argentina reached the first position in the FIBA Men's Ranking at the end of the 2008 Olympic Games. Argentina is a founding member of the International Federation of Basketball (FIBA) and has South America's longest basketball tradition. Again, the league is VERY NOTABLE and backed by Wikipedia.Rniterjr (talk) 17:05, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * if you are seriously going to try and argue the Argentine League is on the level of the NBA then you are not reasonable. Being on a list of leagues for various countries doesn't put it on par. But why are you ducking proving notability for Robert Battle, is it because you aren't able to find the sources? Even if the league met the guideline (it does not), it doesn't grant blanket notability. I am still challenging the notability of THIS PLAYER. If someone meets a sport-specific guideline but flunks GNG (shouldn't happen of the guideline is written correctly) the article can still be deleted because GNG is the super ending guideline. If you cannot prove the notability of Robert Battle using WP:RELIABLESOURCES, then just say so. Rikster2 (talk) 17:20, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * that's not what I was exactly meaning...If I asked what's the top basketball league in the U.S., you'd say the NBA...hands down. Anyone else would say the Liga Nacional de Basquet is the top league for the respective location.  Their both the best of the best and I simply don't want the Liga Nacional de Basquet to be watered down....my apologies for the confusion.Rniterjr (talk) 17:49, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it does meet GNG using reliable sources. If you examine the additions I made to the article you would see as much. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 17:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

EDDY - I appreciate your good faith efforts and feel like it's close enough that I will withdraw my nomination based on this. What I want to be very clear about is that I do NOT accept the argument that the Argentine League is a "similar league" to those named in WP:NBASKETBALL in that EVERY player who has even appeared for 5 minutes of one game can be presumed notable. Since this is the second AfD I have been involved in recently that has tried to use that statement as a loophole to skirt proving notability, I plan to pursue removing this line from the guideline. This is despite being one of the main proponents for keeping it vs. adding a bunch of other leagues. Thank you for your work on this article. Rikster2 (talk) 17:29, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.