Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Campagnola


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Tim Song (talk) 00:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Robert Campagnola

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Autobiography of and by User:Robcamp108. Both in conflic of interest and not notable BLP and completely unsourced. Related articles that were supporting notability Sri Hari Discography  RASA Discography and BLISS Discography were deleted as not notable, being an ex-Iskcon leader does not justify inclusion under WP:BLP criteria. Wikid as&#169; 10:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not notable, vanity article. Wikid as&#169; 10:17, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep He received quite a lot of coverage in independent sources (in this book the whole chapter is dedicated to him), he is undoubtedly notable. The article needs to be rewritten though, and RS should be provided. Articles Sri Hari Discography  RASA Discography and BLISS Discography had nothing to do with his notability. His notability stems from him being one of the most prominent leaders of the Hare Krishna movement for many years.--Gaura79 (talk) 11:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note -- this book is not a source that qualifies to be a RS in wikipedia, and certainly not in English WP. No reviews as well. If no sources that are proper and reliable to support notability or former notability, the article is to be deleted.  Wikid as&#169; 11:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the above mentioned book is most certainly an independent source. Plus, if you would take a time and search for coverage in academic sources, you would find enough material to justify a keep. This nomination is on par with your previous nomination of Kirtanananda Swami.--Gaura79 (talk) 11:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep per above.-- Pookeo9 Talk If you need anything  11:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * An argument that sources exist, but I can not show it is not an argument at all. If there were sources that supported the notability AND were reliable, that would have been a differnt thing. Wikid as&#169; 13:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, some coverage in RS I was able to find:, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Conclusion: the subject of the article is covered in multiple RS, most of them in Russian and German (mostly he was preaching in Russia and German speaking countries). --Gaura79 (talk) 13:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And more coverage. This is an exerpt from a book on Vaishnavism in Russia, written by a well-known Russian scholar (The preview of the book is not available online).

3.2.3. Третий период - «проверки на духовную зрелость» (1998-1999). В 1998 году российские вайшнавы испытали серьезный кризис. Непосредственным поводом, его спровоцировавшим, стал уход из Международного общества сознания Кришны одного из учеников Шрилы Прабхупады - Харикеши Свами Шри Вишнупада. Он был председателем коллегиального руководящего органа Международного общества сознания Кришны – Всемирного руководящего совета (Governing Body Commission, сокращенно GBC, или Джи Би Си), имел множество учеников (по некоторым оценкам, до 3 тыс. человек, в том числе в России, особенно в Санкт-Петербурге и Москве). Непосредственно перед уходом из МОСК Вишнупад тяжело болел и даже, по свидетельству некоторых его учеников, пережил состояние клинической смерти. Вернувшись к жизни, Харикеша Свами выступил с критикой МОСК и особенно его отношения к семье и браку. Своим ученикам он посоветовал самим решать, оставаться им в Обществе сознания Кришны или выйти из него. В декабре 1998 года 50-летний Харикеша Свами женился на шведской кришнаитке русского происхождения. Приглашенные на свадьбу наиболее верные ученики выслушали его подробное мнение о философии и истории МОСК. «Все религиозные организации неизбежно деградировали», - подвел итог Вишнупад. Видеозапись этой беседы разошлась среди российских вайшнавов и «перевернула» сознание довольно многих учеников Харикеши Свами. Некоторые из них вышли из ОСК, другие остались, но были в значительной степени дезориентированы. Кризис 1998 года приобрел в России более значительные масштабы, нежели в Международном обществе сознания Кришны, так как в нашей стране было немало учеников Харикеша Свами (он, в числе других учеников Шрилы Прабхупады, начал посещать территорию СССР еще в конце 70-х годов XX века). Как отмечает вице-президент ЦОСКР Радха Дамодар прабху, на смену массовому энтузиазму, характерному для предшествующего периода, в 1998 году пришла «депрессия», затем «на протяжении нескольких лет наблюдались неуверенность, пассивность и неустойчивость». Суть данного периода истории Общества сознания Кришны в России заключалась в том, что он стал для вайшнавов «проверкой на духовную зрелость». Сейчас, спустя почти 10 лет, кризис практически преодолен. Большинство учеников Харикеша Свами приняли реинициацию (то есть инициацию от других духовных учителей) или получают духовную поддержку от духовных учителей в рамках ОСК. Взгляды и подходы самого Харикеша Свами также претерпели значительную эволюцию, он не выступает более с критикой МОСК (хотя его взгляды отличаются от подходов ОСК по ряду вопросов), высказывает уважительную позицию в отношении Шрилы Прабхупады. Харикеша Свами проживает на территории одной из общин МОСК в США, посещает храмы ОСК, общается с преданными.

As you can see, the coverage is significant.--Gaura79 (talk) 13:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it is from another article. "Xарикеша Свамu" ? -- Certainly does not belong to the WP in english. You can not even compare him with Kirtanananda Swami by the ammount sources that can be found. If you want use the foreign sources on the local wikipedia pages, but they are not RS for wikipedia in English. None of them claim that he is notable for inclusion according to the policy. Is there any mention of Robert Campagnola ANYWHERE in any reliable sources? Wikid as&#169; 14:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a quote from the book I mentioned above. It perfectly qualifies as RS in any Wikipedia. Two pages of material devoted to Robert Campagnola in a publication by a Russian scholar. Plus the other book I mentioned in the begining of our discussion, which is authored by Alexander Dvorkin, the most prominent Anticult activist in modern Russia. He dedicated to Robert Campagnola (aka Harikesa Swami) a whole chapter in his book.--Gaura79 (talk) 15:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Foreign language reliable sources are still reliable.Pectoretalk 19:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * However there is no mention of Robert Compagniola or Bob or Robby or Bobby in the sources. Wikid as&#169; 20:49, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You are suggesting that Robert Campagnola and Harikesa Swami are two different people?--Gaura79 (talk) 21:17, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Question for the nominator. It's very unclear to me at this stage of the discussion what the current basis is for deletion. Is it that the sources offered don't meet the requirement for significant coverage in independent reliable sources? If so, please let us know which of those requirements (significance, reliability or independence) is not met and why. Or is it that we need confirmation that Robert Campagnola is the same person as the Harikesa Swami/Харикеша Свами described in the sources? If so we can concentrate on looking for sources to establish whether this is the same person. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * From here and here it's clear that Harikesa Swami and Robert Campagnola are the same person.--Gaura79 (talk) 19:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Article in its entirety is not based on RS. It is original research. The name used for the article is OR as well -- the sources quoted call him Bobby as I can see. I do not see ANY reliable sources that are in English nor for Bobby nor for Harikesa Swami. It is however clear that the name of the article is incorrect as well, if sources quoted above verified and are acceptable for BLP the article should be moved to Harikesa Swami as if any sources refer to him by that name only. Wikid as&#169; 20:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The article currently is not based on RS and should be rewritten, but not deleted. I mentioned earlier 18 sources – 14 of them are academic publications. Since when RS in other languages are not accepted as such?--Gaura79 (talk) 20:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. The requirement is that sources should be independent and reliable, and provide substantial coverage. Plenty of such sources have been provided. There is no requirement that they should be understandable by every reader. Part of the function of an encyclopedia is to present information that may not be accessible to the general reader in its original sources, whether this is for reasons of language or of other specialist expertise, in a way that can be understood by such a general reader. The correct name for the article is a matter for discussion on its talk page: on currently available evidence I would support moving it to Harikesa Swami. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Without any doubt one of if not the mastermind behind the most common krishna music releases for decades. If any info in the article is in doubt, then this doesnt affect his general relevance.Schmelzle (talk) 23:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep: per Phil - Ret.Prof (talk) 01:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.