Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Charles Kettler


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. There seems to be no debate that the sourcing introduced by ThaddeusB is sufficient; all arguments for deletion were made before that was done, and the rewrite seems to invalidate them. Cool3 (talk) 16:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Robert Charles Kettler

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Unreferenced BLP of non-notable person per WP:BIO. Delete Drawn Some (talk) 05:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Updated below. I found 86 pieces on Gnews (Robert Charles Kettler and Robert C Kettler), a good chunk of them PR pieces that the wires picked up, but almost all about the company, a few significant and a majority trivial, nothing in substantial coverage about this individual though. -SpacemanSpiff (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per the sources that ThaddeusB has found using a different search string. I'm not convinced of the northern VA award, but there's enough coverage to show notability. -SpacemanSpiff (talk) 01:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 13:37, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - there is extensive reliable source coverage of Kettler/his real estate company on GNews (See - about 20% false positives).  In this case the company and the individual are basically the same thing. Some examples of coverage:
 * Washington Post: "Bob Kettler one of the region's most successful businessmen ..."
 * Washington Post: "developer Robert Kettler has been forced to give up ownership of two huge planned communities"
 * Blockshopper: "Robert Kettler is the majority shareholder, founder and chairman of McLean, Va.-based real estate development company KETTLER"
 * This is a PR, but still indicates importance: "Robert Kettler Honored with Lifetime Achievement Award"
 * Lots of coverage of him on Bisnow
 * Biz Journals: "In the midst of a housing slump, developer Bob Kettler is celebrating"
 * And the list goes on... Now, to me these stories are about the individual, however the company is also clearly notable and arguably more so. Thus I wouldn't object to a rewrite to focus on the company, although I don't feel one is required since Kettler himself is notable. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Complete vanity page. None of the content is sourced and probably never will be. Just not notable enough. Parkerparked (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Promotional tone and lack of proper sourcing can be solved through editing. Can you explain why you feel the sources I provided are insufficient to establish notability?


 * Delete. Simply doesn't pass notability. And claiming a "lifetime achievement award" in a source as being important looks good until you read the source and see it's from the Northern Virginia Building Industry Association...not exactly a notable organization. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:13, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep On the basis of the 2 Washington Post articles. DGG (talk) 02:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: there are actually a couple dozen WP articles on him/his activities. I only listed the first two as I didn't want to clog up the list with a bunch of article from the same source. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

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 * Delete: notable or not doesn't matter in this case. It's a flat-out copyvio of http://www.kettler.com/about/leadership/robert_c_kettler, and therefore, has to go. If someone wants to write a new biography after doing research, go for it—but this ain't it (note: I've tagged it as a db-g12) . Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 00:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment – it has been here on Wikipedia in that state for exactly one year now. It is possible it is a copy of the Wikipedia article on Kettler's site – until this is established I have put a copyright notice on it. People can still see a previous version to comment on notability – which they can't do if I delete it. – B.hotep •talk• 14:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Re-written now, so copyvio is no longer an issue. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have completely rewritten this article, focusing on what reliable sources have to say about him. The promotional language is gone and a lot of new information has been added.  Just about everything important is sourced now.  Further expansion is definitely possible, as there are a lot of good sources available.--ThaddeusB (talk) 16:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep – following extensive rewrite by ThaddeusB with acceptable sourcing. – B.hotep •talk• 18:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.