Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Chasowa


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   nomination withdrawn. Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Robert Chasowa

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Article seems based off of a single news event. Delete under WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. Creator gives some rationale in discussion section, but because this is so recent (just days!), it is unlikely to be encyclopedic at this time. AstroCog (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I went though the guidelines again.....and here is my argument...According to the guidelines -- '''News reports. Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events'''---> This should qualify. For example, routine news reporting on things like announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedic---> this is not routing reporting due to the political connection, and b/c crimes like this a rare in that country.

In reference to Notability events-- events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect. it is s significant turning point in that the lives of activists are being threatened in a democracy -- Malawi is in Africa, but I hope that nominators are not looking at this as 'just another routine political killing in Africa' b/c that would play on the stereotypes around political tolerance and violence in Africa. The reason this is significant is b/c in Malawi this type of politically motivated crime does not normally happen. People are not just being killed as normal practice. Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below). ---> it had wide spread coverage nationally and internationally. Whilst it may have been a short article in international papers, this was headline news in the country of origin. ie. just b/c it is not historically significant in your country it does not mean it is not historically significant in someone else's...but coverage is not the main argument, significance is. '''Events having lesser coverage or more limited scope may or may not be notable; the descriptions below provide guidance to assess the event. Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) - whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time - are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance.'''

--> I need to stress again, it has lasting value in Malawi. This particular event is significant or enduring because the political climate of the country is changing. A democratically elected president is operating in an environment where he or his supporters are threatening and harassing people. Whilst most threats have lead to fire bomb, house burnings etc.., this is the first time that the police actively sough out a known activist, and it resulted in a mysterious death/suicide (the other death in July were due to protests). He is being seen as a martyr..I guess the significance is in the context of the situation in the country right now - this is not just a routine death that will pass. It is marking the start of an attack on people, after the president said -- he will actively seek out protestors and 'smoke them out' he or his supporters appear to be making good of their threat. The fact that he is a college student is even more significant because the university and the president recently had an academic stand off that resulted in the college being shut down. students are disgruntled and are usually the starters of revolutions in countries. - UNIMA has had a history of activism, and silencing of voices in a public manner will be enduring in light of the threat made by the president and his cabinet to all political activists after the protest. Its the first political death after the protest

I think maybe it would help when the people that advocate for deletion it can consider the current environment in the country when give reasons why it should be deleted. (There are articles on wiki, if your not too caught up on the environment there right now and why this would be significant and not just another water cooler story), but some background information explaining why it should be deleted in spite of the connected political climate etc.. events would help me understand the nomination better. thanks all --MisterMDubs (talk) 14:27, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

--I would also add that being a chair of a student activist group in a college campus in a country in a country that is becoming increasingly tolerant is not a small feat in the event that he had not died. so I am adding a rescu tag as well to get other opinions.--MisterMDubs (talk) 14:45, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep Weak, because we do not yet have the perspective of time to see what "enduring effects" might derive from the individual's life and his suicide or murder by government security forces. One ref in the article says the death resulted in hightened tensions at the university, and that the funeral was attended by thousands of supporters. Another ref says the death is being investigated by the human rights commission of the country. Another ref notes politicians and university figures attendance at the funeral, and the funeral being treated as a political or human rights event. It was covered worldwide: the Associated Press (cited in the article) as well as references not yet cited such as "The Nation," which researched its own story on site rather than reprinting wire service copy. Aftereffects of the murder or suicide included the student body at the university dissolving the Polytechnic Student Union on the ground that it was controlled by the national administration. Thus this is not just a sad story about a random student who committed suicide. It is eerily reminiscent of the outrage from the death of South African anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko, who also died of head injuries the police claimed were from a suicide attempt. Edison (talk) 21:10, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 23:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 23:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I am sympathetic this slain individual and his family, friends and community. However, it's not enough to just assert that his death has profoundly impacted the cultural and political climate of the community. This needs significant coverage in reliable sources, and I think that will only come about with time. Again, I think this article doesn't stand up to WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. This article is about a recent event that is very new, and not enough time has gone by to ascertain its broader importance. When that happens, and such broader cultural and political impact has been covered by reliable sources, then an article should be made. It's not good practice to create an article on the assumption that it will eventually become notable. AstroCog (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Another Comment - As to the reports from the sources saying that the funeral was attended by politicians and that the death is being investigated by the country's human rights commission, I think a section inclusion in the article for the country makes more sense than a separate article. Perhaps that would be a reasonable compromise here? AstroCog (talk) 12:29, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Not sure how many English references can be found, but this was surely a well covered event in their nation. The former vice president of the country and other notable people came to attend the funeral, so this is an event that will surely have lasting impact.   D r e a m Focus  23:34, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep The ongoing political violence in Malawi and the State's response are notable (not simply newsworthy) events. This particular death is noteworthy because (not mentioned in the article) the police have produced two different alleged suicide notes which the victim's father identified as clearly fake, and the police have also claimed that the pathologist's report supports the verdict of suicide whereas the pathologist himself confirms that he has not even issued his report yet. The events surrounding this death clearly point to corruption and state-sponsored violence/murder aimed at suppressing political challenge to the President's authority. If this is not notable in and of itself, what kind of death would qualify? Surely this article deserves cleanup rather than deletion. Youngdegsy (talk) 09:21, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Withdraw - The comments here have convinced me there is a chance that this article has potential to be cleaned up. I think it will take substantial effort. It could perhaps be renamed or moved to an article about political unrest in Malawi, rather than as a biography of an individual. I'll try to help if I can. AstroCog (talk) 12:41, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.