Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rockets red glare


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was no consensus.  howch e  ng   {chat} 22:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Rockets red glare

 * Delete: Not notable and never will be since they've already disbanded. No real official web site, article is basically external links and even their influences are of questionable notability.  Might even be a speedy candidate? &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 12:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
 * What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
 * Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
 * O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
 * And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
 * Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
 * Cyde Weys votetalk 15:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't it rockets' red glare? &mdash;Wahoofive (talk) 17:50, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If it is, might want to fix it on the Wikipedia page. --Cyde Weys votetalk 17:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Redirect to The Star-Spangled Banner. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 17:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Oh hey, that's a good idea... &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 18:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Redirect as suggested by Crotalus horridus Meekohi 20:15, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Redirect to The Star-Spangled Banner, great idea! Segv11 (talk/contribs) 21:26, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Redirect, per existing arguments. -Rebelguys2 22:51, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The article tells us that the band released "two full-length albums". Allmusic confirms that this is indeed the case, and I found one of the albums in stock and available to buy on Amazon.  The WP:MUSIC criteria appear to be satisfied.  Keep. Uncle G 01:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * ...two albums on a major label. The one label's web site only lists seven bands: two are dead and four aren't touring.  The other label's web site has about two dozen bands, no band descriptions and a broken Site Map link on every page.  Doesn't strike me as too major.  &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 02:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Uncle G. dryguy 13:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Is this the same criteria that I'm reading? "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)."  Their labels are neither major nor important indie labels - is there anyone on either of their performer rosters that are on Wikipedia?  Has anyone even heard of anyone on their rosters?  Is there some other criteria I'm missing?  &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 14:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, the latest keep vote is from someone that only votes on my Afd's and always against. Clears it up for me.  Wknight94 14:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have voted on a total of three AfD's, two of which Wknight94 created. The third one I created, pretty much at his request, and in agreement with him. I took him to task for disparaging one of my edits, and he has directed quite a number of posts to me or about me since then. I won't respond further here, as this has nothing to do with Rockets Red Glare, other than his attempt to discredit my vote. dryguy 14:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Per WP:MUSIC:
 * Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources.
 * That's indisputably the case here.
 * Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
 * You can certainly debate whether the label in question is notable enough, but a case can be made that the criterion is satisfied.
 * Has been prominently featured in any major music media.
 * Chart, which is unquestionably major enough, has profiled them.
 * Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise extremely notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.
 * Again: you can debate whether Jim Guthrie, whose band contains former RRGer Evan Clarke, is notable enough, but a case can be made that he is. "Extremely notable" is not an objectively quantifiable criterion, at any rate; I'd suggest a much more specific and less open-to-interpretation standard be used.

So, bottom line, this is not a clear-cut delete; it's a borderline case. Passes my own personal keep line, though I suppose that may be just me. Bearcat 01:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * KEEP - They are disbanded so this is not some sort of plug for the band. They have records and songs out there. Probably some floating around on the internet. The people who made the music and care for the music are still around. Why not keep? Are we running out of room? Verifyable. Encyclopedic to some. Not an ad. So keep already. WAS 4.250 01:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * DELETE. They're notable because they released three albums. They are a band, they toured, they released albums, thus they are deserving of an entry. They're now part of the history of the Canadian music scene. I mean who decides whether a band is notable or not? Based on sales? Radio play? Fanbase? What? This article has to stay. --Dogbreathcanada 04:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: WP:BAND is supposed to say. Unfortunately, that just leads to discussion about what "notable" means in "Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources."  Some say that is indisuputable.  Me?  I dispute it.  To answer other questions, there has been a big push here - including making WP:BAND violation a speedy deletion criteria - to stop Wikipedia from being flooded by every band that every person likes.  I.e., if Rockets red glare is notable enough, then so are fifty zillion other bands until half the database is just bands, each of which is notable in one person's mind.  Has anyone found any of this band's label-mates in Wikipedia?  Why not?  Get that new article button moving because they must all be notable too.  And, if any of them were on a slightly larger label too, make articles for all of that label's bands, etc., etc...  Soon, every schmuck that's ever picked up a guitar and happened to know someone with some recording equipment who happened to know someone at a CD publishing joint - they're all on Wikipedia. —Wknight94 (talk) 05:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't know about WP:BAND before voting. Always learning here at Wikipedia. :) Based on this new criteria for "notability", I have changed my vote. Thanks Wknight94 for the heads up. --Dogbreathcanada 08:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.