Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rodney Lough, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   notability established, withdrawn by nom. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Rodney Lough, Jr.

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This BLP fails WP:BIO. His large format photographic prints are marketed through a few of his own retail shops in the US but there is little or no independent, non-sales-driven critical or in-depth commentary on this photographer. There is a long, uncited list of awards which don't seem to be verifiable. Given these worries, article is also mostly an unencyclopedic autobiography. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions.  -- – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 15:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I can't express enough how frustrating this is. I thought that when the final set of discussions took place back in April we were done with all this.

Yesterday we edited the document to add the 2009 awards - we are obviously proud of them. Three awards have been given to us so far in 2009 - it's a big deal really as they are very prestigious awards. We were excited to share. This call for deletion action however seems to have - I believe - been prompted by other editors who have an axe to grind from back in April, and for no other reason than that. So really, why are we here?

Prior to opening my own galleries I sold my photographs through apx 30 galleries in 13 different countries. I knew from those sales, in others galleries, that my work was selling very well; so I started by opening my own galleries - how ostentatious of me. Not unlike many of the other successful photographers currently listed on Wiki: Galen Rowell, Christopher Burkett, Peter Lik, Art Wolfe, etc... our four existing galleries [with another one opening in December at MGM's City Center in Las Vegas (no slouch outfit mind you)] puts me amongst the top ranked photographers in the US, which in turn would be, given the market share, be the world. The existing commentary, which this editor seems to have not bothered to read, clearly puts me at the top, near the top, ranked amongst the top - however you want to put it, we're up there. We have licensed products in countries world wide. Heck take a stroll down to your local Barnes & Nobles store and have a look at my 2010 calendar currently on sale, does that somehow make me a small potato?

This editors assertion that we're somehow not part of the big league, is simply ignorance on their part. The awards are verifiable - stop saying they're not.

As for being 'unencyclopedic' - go pick on the other photographers and please just leave me alone. I guess I sort of know how Kathy Griffith feels now, somehow you guys keep wanting to move me from the A list, to the D list.

If you choose to remove this wiki, then you should also have to remove the other top ranked US photographers as well because theirs seem to be 'unencyclopedic' as well.

Rodney Lough Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodneyloughjr (talk • contribs) 22:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Rodney, you say The awards are verifiable - stop saying they're not. So where's the independent verification? (Compare this shorter list, each of which comes with a link to a disinterested source.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hoary, we've been here before - didn't you look it up?

"So where's the independent verification?" - says Hoary will that get you off my back?

2009 PPA Awards: http://www.ppa.com/competitions/international.php download the pdf and search on Lough. 2009 Gold Ink Awards: http://www.goldink.com click on the gold ink award winners listing and search it out. 2009 Printing Industries of America Awards: http://www.printing.org/page/5589

Seriously, this took all of five minutes to source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodneyloughjr (talk • contribs) 23:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Then please work to add this material. &para; I've already done PPA (the first of the three). I note that your name appears as the photographer of three works among a 48-page list that appears to include over two thousand. -- Hoary (talk) 23:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC) &para; Now for the second. The 2009 Gold Ink Awards search page is here. We're given the search fields Category, Printer, Prepress, Paper Manufacturer, Ink, Press Manufacturer. The fact that there's a search page suggests to me that (as for the PPA thing) there were a lot of awards; that matter aside, there's no "Photographer" field, and looking in "Printer" or "Press" for "Lough" brings nothing. What am I missing? -- Hoary (talk) 01:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC) &para; And the third. Yes, we read Art Books (4 or more colors) | Beyond the Trail | Rodney Lough Jr. Wilderness Collections Galleries. Good. However, it might be worth noting that this is one of eighty or more 2009 awards, which include another for "Art Books (4 or more colors)". -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Despite Rodney's earnest efforts to behave like a non-notable self-promoting character, there is in-his-field coverage describing him as a "master of landscape photography" and "eminent", and another reporting his galleries include one in the Mall Of America, which at least supports a claim of notability. And while I'd be much happier if I could find an independent announcement of the Smithsonian award to replace this one (Rodney's PR efforts dominate the Google search results), a photography competition sponsored by Sony with winners exhibited at the Smithsonian sure looks notable enough to me, and the award itself is documented on the Smithsonian site .  If Rodney could post some pointers to independent third party reports of his awards (he's got to have a press clip file), or even links to some scans of his press clips, then got out of the way so editors without COIs could fix up the article, this would pretty much resolve things Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:08, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * weak keep much as I dislike Rodney's use of Wikipedia for self-promotion I do think that he is notable for his photography brand and the printing quality of his books which he has marketed through his several stores. He has some notability in his field as evidenced in his appearance in Outdoor photographer magazine. The awards that he cites on the page are not enough to make him notable on their own. Jenafalt (talk) 07:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Haven't decided yet. The article is much better now than it has been, but it makes me queasy. Though Lough is described as a photographer his notability by conventional criteria seems limited to a single independently hosted exhibition, a single photo within an exhibition at the Smithsonian, a large part of a single magazine article, and a lot of somewhat obscure signs of "mastery". Thus "He is currently listed as a Master Photographer in the Yahoo! directory Yahoo's Master Photographers List". And there's godliness by obscure association: "He uses the same type of camera Ansel Adams used". It's unclear that anybody knowledgable cares about this kind of thing -- except Lough himself, who's most vehement that it should not be deleted (see the article's talk page). He seems to be a financially successful photographic entrepreneur, and there's nothing wrong with that -- but I don't see his entrepreneurship or printing prowess much discussed (other than in discussion boards) or any critical discussion (again, message forums aside) of his work. -- Hoary (talk) 08:33, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. I've just made a series of edits that I think improves the article sufficiently. There are after all large parts of not one but two magazine articles that attest to his prominence. (I'd say straight keep, with no mention of weakness, if there weren't something very odd about the history of this article and the boosterism.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.