Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roger Kirk (presenter) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  02:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Roger Kirk (presenter)
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Biographical article about a radio presenter. Previously nominated (by me) and closed as no consensus. I am bringing this back to AfD some months later as I still believe that even with the links added during the previous discussion, there is no assertion of notability under WP:GNG here and much of the content appears to be WP:OR.

As part of WP:BEFORE I have performed a source analysis on all the sources in this article, including those added during the previous AfD discussion:

Flip Format (talk) 10:52, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Radio, United Kingdom,  and England. Flip Format (talk) 10:52, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Source review table shows this isn't a notable radio person. I don't find anything beyond proof they exist. Oaktree b (talk) 13:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I've also done a search in the archives of Broadcast (magazine) for mentions of this individual. He is mentioned, but only in passing in the context of various stations:
 * Broadcast, 8 September 1975, article about Pennine Radio's launch: "...and former Capital engineer Roger Kirk on in the afternoons."
 * Broadcast, 14 February 1977, article about changes to Pennine Radio's schedule: "...and extending the pop music shows of Roger Kirk and Julius K Scragg from three to four hours each."
 * Broadcast, 1 June 1990, general article about Trans World Communications splitting its FM and AM stations: "Aire [...] Roger Kirk has joined from neighbouring Classic Gold to present the morning breakfast show."

I don't think any of these constitute significant coverage, they are all just passing mentions in the context of wider articles about changes to radio stations, but wanted to make sure the research was complete before nominating. Flip Format (talk) 15:48, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: Whilst I accept that this isn't the best article, it does contain independent references and whilst some may be passing mentions, these sources are perfectly valid and they should be added to the article.Rillington (talk) 08:51, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:MUSTBESOURCES. Where is your Wikipedia policy-based argument, Rillington? This is just WP:ILIKEIT. Flip Format (talk) 09:38, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article contains independent references and your own research found three additional independent references and it would be beneficial if you were to add those to the article. Rillington (talk) 09:44, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The source assessment table above shows my own assessment of the sources already in the article. One is a basic piece of schedule information showing that Kirk existed; two are links to Mixcloud (one is dead); one is a link to an archived off-site wiki and is WP:UGC and one is a dead link to a forum (also WP:UGC). Feel free to do your own analysis of these sources, but I doubt you will find any different.
 * The Broadcast mentions are just that - passing mentions of the subject in the context of articles about radio stations, mentioning that he's moved from this to that program. There are no other mentions of Kirk beyond the three above, and no articles about Kirk. How does Kirk meet WP:GNG in your view? Flip Format (talk) 10:54, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it comes down to this. You have decided to engage in a mass article cull, and now you are going after articles for a second time, as is the case here. I think this is wrong and frankly unhelpful and I feel justified to respectfully and politely call you out on this. Maybe you could explain why you have chosen not to take the constructive approach of improving these articles rather than spending significant amounts of time trying to get them deleted. You clearly care about the articles on Wikipedia so why not be constructive rather than destructive? This may sound harsh but this is how I feel.


 * Regarding this article and the three references you have found, so what if they are passing mentions? Broadcast magazine is a trusted source so rather than doubling down on your desire to get this article deleted, why not add the references to the article as doing so would improve the article. Rillington (talk) 07:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not relevant to this AfD and appears to be a personal comment about me as a user. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on my talk page - this space is for the AfD discussion on Roger Kirk (presenter). Flip Format (talk) 13:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The second part of my comment is very relevant to the discussion and the reason I posted the first part here was because you are making a second attempt to get this article deleted. However, you are right that the overall theme of that comment might be better on your talkpage because I do have an issue with people who want to see lots of articles deleted and I feel that I am within my rights to politely challenge this.Rillington (talk) 23:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 07:48, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:BIO per nom's analysis. SBKSPP (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Not the most thorough article, however there are enough independent sources to justify it remaining on Wikipedia, even if it's a stub. SpokOfMinecraft (talk) 15:21, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per analysis presented above and a lack of coverage out there in the big bad world. We simply aren't getting beyond WP:GNG here. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:05, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete I checked Keith Skues' Pop Went The Pirates 2nd ed. - the only mention of him there is his name in the list of RNLI DJs. Adam Sampson (talk) 11:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.