Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rojda Aykoç


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 17:51, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Rojda Aykoç

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Turkish singer without a page in Turkish Wikipedia. She has had her hours of fame due to an absurd court ruling which was not executed. As a singer she has doubtful notability, maybe some among Turkish Kurds. Note: Please do not confuse her with the famous Turkish Kurd singer Rojin who doesn't have a page here! Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 15:27, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Additional comment by the nominator: Please note that there is not even one reliable source used in the article. Hürriyet could be one but it only uses the news of an ailing Milliyet newspaper. Then, saying 'arrested for singing' ın the tıtle, but something different in the news text. Pure sensationalism. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 19:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:44, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:44, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:27, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


 * KEEP. She has published seven albums, if that does not make her notable I don not know what does! Please note that her music has been broadcast on Iraqi Kurdish TV satellite channels many times. So she is quite well known even in Iraqi Kurdistan. If the main issue with the article is her court ruling then remove that part. We know that she is not Rojin, but that does not mean that she is unknown. Her music is traditional and folkloric and has nothing to do with politics. For instance her clip Le Buke is a famous folk song. Also not having a page in Turkish wikipedia is not a solid ground for deleting her article here. She sings in Kurdish not Turkish so it is reasonable to assume that she is not well known among Turks of Turkey. On the other hand, she does have an article in Kurdish wikipedia. Vekoler (talk) 22:24, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You somehow forgot to say that you created the article. You also recognise she is not a Rojin (although she chose a similar stage name). I appreciate that you accept that the absurd court adventure is not necessary here; whatever the Wiki articles say, if you have any insight to the situation of the Kurds in Turkey at present you will understand why I say 'absurd'. (The other day I read somewhere that the Turks of Rhodes and Kos were being intimidated not to speak Turkish. Dialectics, while one changes in one direction the neighbour goes the other way!) Anyhow, when are you going to make an article for Rojin? Does she have less albums or less court orders? --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 22:42, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep both for her musical output and public notability. She is a professional singer with a career history spanning several decades (there are many examples of her work on Youtube). The 2010 arrest and subsequent court case is a big part of the notability, so mention of it should remain - there should be no blp issues as long as it is carefully done. I don't see the point to Why should I have a User Name's mentions of Rojin or Turkish Wikipedia - lack of an article on one subject or on one Wikipedia is not a reason to delete an existing article on a different subject. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Neither her musical output nor her arrest raise to the level of notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:38, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please explain why do you think that ten albums, plus the fact that she was important enough cultural figure to be selected amongst other cultural figures of Kurdish origin to meet with the PM of Turkey, plus the arrest story that was widely reported, does not raise her to the level of notability? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 18:51, 5 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:40, 2 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Is really non notable. Op47 (talk) 20:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Really"? Is this really the extent of your argument? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 17:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Op47 has scattered delete opinions in numerous AfDs. Most of those opinions are similar or identical ,, or even shorter, in their brevity and absence of a reasoned argument. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment and  Does she meet any of the criteria at WP:MUSICBIO or WP:GNG? Having a long career or lots of Youtube videos can't count. Of her seven albums, have any of them charted in a national chart, or met any other part of WP:MUSICBIO? Boleyn (talk) 07:42, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Charted in a national chart" - that generates in me a bit of a smile and a bit of a groan. Let me explain why. How can she chart in a national chart if the country the singer lives in has had (until very recently) restrictive and oppressive language laws that did not allow her songs to be played in public, or even their titles - since they use an "illegal" alphabet (Kurdish) - to appear in print! Having a long career, releasing at least 10 albums, and having many tracks on YouTube ARE indicators of notability when the more normal indicators of notability are denied due to abnormal circumstances. Being significant and well-known enough to be invited to appear in numerous international concerts and festivals are also indicators of notability, as is being included in a small and select group of cultural figures invited to meet the leader of the country that has created those abnormal circumstances. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:54, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It's like the blind are leading the blind, with invalid arguments all around. That there's no article in the Turkish wiki means nothing whatsoever, and that she made seven albums and has a lot of YouTube videos also means nothing. (Seven albums--with a record company? a notable one? were they released outside of Turkey and did they chart there, like in Germany or the Balkan?) Sorry, but politics and all that notwithstanding, nothing but reliable sources is going to save this article. BTW, I disagree a bit with, who I think was suggesting that the arrest needed to be removed from the lead to do away with the suggestion that she's notable for that reason: it may well be that the publicity generated by her arrest contains evidence that she in fact is notable for other reasons as well. In other words, let's not say BLP1E too quickly, and I urge editors to mine the archives and the references more carefully. The way this AfD is going right now I'd close it as a delete. Drmies (talk) 18:47, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * More sources, but we need a Kurdish speaker to extract any content from the first, and a Turkish speaker for the second:


 * Article (in Kurdish) about, and with link to, a 35-minute interview she gave on the Kurdish language service of Voice of Russia on 28 March 2014.


 * Review (in Turkish) of her latest album, Kezi, along with a lot of background info on her career.


 * Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:47, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 'Siirt News'? The local website is celebrating its first anniversary (see top left). Congratulations! --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 18:23, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been active in Turkey for longer than you have then? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.