Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rollin' Dice


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  13:01, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Rollin' Dice

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Notability concerns. With the discogs refs (such as ) removed, none of the references mention the article. The artist does not have an article, and the article creator notes the lack of good references in their edit summary. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 02:55, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 02:55, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - I can find almost nothing on Jimmy Jackson the soul singer, and note that there is an unrelated jazz musician of the same name. This Jimmy Jackson seems to have been a background session player who knew lots of famous people and got them to appear on this album, the only release bearing his name. The album also has no reliable coverage; I can only find it in basic database entries of obscure 70s albums, and even those are rare. The article's creator may be a collector who wants to spread the word about a lost classic, but there's just not enough info available to do that here. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 16:42, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and Doomsdayer. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 11:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - As I did say (and was noted by the other editor), is I did not have a lot of sources to go off of here. But below are some reasons as to why I think that the page is notable enough to stay on Wikipedia.

1. The notability of the people working on the album. You have people like Gene Page, Ray Parker, Jr., Roland Bautista, King Errison, Bobbye Hall, Melvin Ragin and Dick Hyde were all in the process of making this album. Key players that would go on to be in or were already in notable groups, people who had previously played with Marvin Gaye as session players, and to create chart topping hits (Parker creating the #1 Billboard Hot 100, Ghostbusters). This shows both the humble beginnings and strides that these artists were in during their most prolific period. Even if you don't hear the music itself, the musician connections are worthwhile just by themselves.

2. The possibility of creating more links for pages. While creating this page, I found there were several credits that I was adding that didn't already have a page on Wikipedia for them. Take for instance, Milton Sincoff, a creative director specializing in Creative Packaging at Buddah Records. Milton would design such notable album covers such as "Still Bill" by Bill Withers, "Coming From Reality" by Rodriguez, "Superfly", "Back To The World", "Sweet Exorcist", "Got To Find A Way" by Curtis Mayfield, and "The Baby Huey Story (The Living Legend)" by Baby Huey, just to name a few. There isn't an article for Milton on Wikipedia yet, but it's possible this could lead to the start of creating a new page. That's how this page was created, because I was provided an outlet to do so from Dick Hyde's page.

3. To spread awareness about the album and Jimmy. What's so engaging about the album and the artist himself is the lack of information that's online about him. We don't know for sure when he was born, and the only way I was able to come to the conclusion that he died was because of a comment that was left by his son on nearly all single rips of Mr. Jackson's singles that are on Youtube, stating that 4/30/2003 was the date of his passing. An effort of this page being created was also to help visibility heighten of the artist as well, so that perhaps more information will be created and contributed by others who knew them personally. I went through all the pages on Google that referenced Rollin' Dice with Jimmy Jackson, and there was not a whole lot.

For certain what I can say is that the single "Rollin' Dice" was released sometime during 1975 or before then because of one Newspaper article I found from a June 18th, 1975 article in the Manchester Journal Enquirer. It mentions that Jimmy "made two "soul" recordings on the Buddah label", and gives the most information that I was able to find on Mr. Jackson by far. Police officer, soul singer, 6' 3", and son of a gospel singer. It's things like this article that can help others view and get motivated to contribute to the site as well. Here are the links for the Manchester Journal article and currently my completed documentation on Jimmy Jackson, complete with images and links to the sources: Manchester: https://newspaperarchive.com/manchester-journal-inquirer-jun-18-1975-p-36/ Image Library (contains Manchester Article): https://imgur.com/a/4RBCzef

After assessing the situation, I can understand reason for concern. Discogs is seen by Wikipedia as being unreliable due to the user sourced information, and also I assume AllMusic is to an extent if it isn't being used for reviews. But that's where the difficulties lie, I can find no chart history and no published reviews of the album. I couldn't even find a mention of it in Billboard (verbal or chart history on their website), the closest I got was a group called The Hitchhikers doing a cover of the song "Rollin' Dice" (referred to as just "Rolling Dice") from a 1976 issue: https://books.google.com/books?id=FSUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT89&dq=billboard+rollin%27+dice+1976&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbqIDI6ertAhUPCs0KHX0WDPQQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=billboard%20rollin'%20dice%201976&f=false

For other information on the album, it's sparse to say the least if we are not talking about user-sourced information from websites. What I can say in my defense is that I own this album personally, and that's where I was able to get a correct list of credits from. I cross-referenced with Discogs & Allmusic to both learn and confirm the credits I was listing and linking to existing pages with were correct. The way that I look at it, the page will be a major way of possibly leading to sources to credit as well if the right person reads it and publishes an article about it (from a credible source, of course). But I feel that won't happen otherwise if the page is deleted. For conduct on what should be done with the page, I'm not sure otherwise with the given situation. If it comes to the consensus despite my explanation on the topic, I'll be disappointed but understanding as to why it happened.

Thank you for your interest in making sure the right thing is done for the article and for the website, and look forward to seeing what others have to say about it as well.

WolfXCIX (talk) 22:08, 31 December 2020 (UTC)WolfXCIX
 * Comment - Thanks for taking the time to give us so much information, but none of it helps with the album's notability, and having notability is what helps people and things qualify for a Wikipedia article. The album is not notable because it had notable people on it as session players; see notability is not inherited. If Mr. Jackson and this album deserve more recognition, that is valid but Wikipedia is not a promotional service. You have gone on a fan's quest to find info on what looks to be a lost classic album by an unappreciated musician; kudos for your efforts but Wikipedia is the wrong outlet. There are lots of other websites full of collectors interested in obscure gems. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 16:38, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete It may be a great album, for all I know, but I cannot find a single source to show notability, hence it must go (borderline A9 case, IMO). --DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.