Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rom (Star Trek) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Berrely  • Talk∕Contribs 18:07, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Rom (Star Trek)
AfDs for this article:


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No idea how this one survived so long - not only it has no reception section or such, but it is totally unreferenced, pure WP:FANCRUFT. Nothing here seems sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline nor the more detailed Notability (biographies) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar, just some plot summaries and mentions in passing, the best is likely this CBR clickbait list of 10 blah blahs:. I hoped there'd be something scholarly about characters with disability or such, but no such luck, he still hasn't attracted any serious attention outside fandom, as far as I can tell. The old AFD 10 years ago was dominated by fans voting "keep, all Star Trek recurring characters are notable". No, they are not. At best, redirect to List of recurring Star Trek: Deep Space Nine characters (or List_of_Star_Trek_characters_(N–S)). PS. It would be good to improve Quark_(Star_Trek) and Nog_(Star_Trek) before they end up here, neither of which currently looks particularly impressive (if I were to guess, Quark is probably notable, I have serious doubts Nog is...). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Redirect to List of recurring Star Trek: Deep Space Nine characters - Outside of an interview with the actor that portrayed him and entries on the usual "top ten" style pop culture lists, there is not a whole lot on Rom in reliable sources that goes beyond brief mentions. Most of the bits of coverage on him are merely in the context of describing how he is related to his more notable family members, or commentary on Ferengi as a whole where he is mentioned as being an example of one.  The only in-depth coverage on Rom, specifically, I can find are all in articles at startrek.com, which would not be able to be counted as secondary sources.  Rorshacma (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak keep, per the coverage available in independent, reliable sources.

SailingInABathTub (talk) 10:23, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , Nice find with the Wired piece, it is usually a quality source, although this one is weirdly formatted. But when we string this together, we do get 10 paragraphs. Although it does scare me to think Wired (used to?) run those clickbait-ish 10 blah blah pieces too. The WP:INTERVIEW is more about the actor than the character, so it's rather weak as for establishing the notability. As for the book, I am sorry, but it's a short paragraph with no analysis (direct page link) and just a plot summary, so I don't think it is of any help. Still, the Wired source is a good start. Maybe we can salvage this after all. Ping User:Daranios. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I have added a bit of characterization. Another interesting source is Trekonomics, which is unfortunately difficult to navigate. It has some characterization of Rom, how we suffers in Ferengi culture as described by Nog just before the sub-chapter "The Meaning of Work", and how he overcomes that and how he is pivotal in "the Ferengis' narative arc" in the last two pages of chapter 8. I will look some more and write out my opinion another day. Daranios (talk) 14:39, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , I saw something similar in but I concluded it is a plot summary. In case you haven't seen it, take a look in case you think it is usable here. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:45, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That source seems to go a long way towards establishing notability for Nog. But seeing that Rom is included in the conclusion (against which I personally would have a number of things to say), that source should provide a short but interesting counterpoint to the positive reception of the character in the other sources. Daranios (talk) 18:03, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello Piotrus, IMHO that sentence based on Sutko you've removed said something about Rom's (un)suitability for Grand Nagus. But fine, it's good to be double-checked. But what do you think then what Sutko referred to with "which is perhaps why the lovable buffoon Rom becomes the new Grand Negus"? Thanks for input! (Sorry, if this is the wrong place, but here we are already discussing how much there is in secondary sources.) Daranios (talk) 07:12, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , I think it's fine to quote how he is described, but the tiny plotline is otherwise of no use for the reception. Could use it as a source for the fictional biography, but that's not really a major issue.Anyway, thanks for doing what you can. I am afraid I find this one less convincing than Mortok, but let's see what happens. If the end result is delete, I certainly hope it will be soft, and the content you added would be preserved and merged. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:Wired rule (yes, I wrote it), and with the other few references here. It's not a great tragedy if the content is merged to either proposed location, but I would suggest that the sources found here be used to improve the main Ferengi article as well.  Quark, Nog, and to a lesser extent Rom comprise the substantial Ferengi in the DS9 universe, which as a whole topic clearly has sufficient RS coverage.  If the individual character articles aren't individually maintained, I might argue that merging each of them to Ferengi and maintaining but retargeting the character list entries might be more encyclopedic. Jclemens (talk) 03:27, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect somewhere deemed suitable. Between the article and sources brought forth here, they're insufficient for meeting WP:GNG at this time. TTN (talk) 12:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Between the Wired article and the other sources presented so far, I think there is enough for a reception section, as well as plot summary (which can be supplemented by The Star Trek Encyclopedia) to write a decent-sized stand-alone article, so in my view WP:GNG is fulfilled. Daranios (talk) 18:03, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: More secondary sources have been added to the article, showing that Wikipedia's requirements for noteablity can be fulfilled. Daranios (talk) 07:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , While I have concerns about stretching SIGCOV, and I am AGFing German sources, the article undeniably looks much better than it used in the past. Judging by the votes here, it will likely be kept, and at we certainly don't need to ashamed of it now. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:26, 27 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep There is a lot sources out there, and the various book and media articles make this reasonable keeper. Star Spotter   (Talk)    21:39, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per all other keeps here. Dr. Universe (talk) 05:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.