Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ron Hudson


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep. Stifle (talk) 09:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Ron Hudson

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These three articles are about college football assistant coaches. The closest notability guideline we have, AFAIK, for American football coaches would be the one for athletes, which says that individuals who have competed at the fully professional level of a sport are presumed to be notable. They have not, and therefore fail to meet our notability guideline. – wodup – 04:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Withdrawing nominations for Ron Hudson and John Goodner based on recent improvements showing that they meet the general notability guideline. WODUP (talk) 06:36, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak delete Weak keep As a guideline for how to think of this, people in charge of notable organizations are notable, like coaches, but not usually their assistants. Of course, many of them will have been professional players before that, and be thus notable, such as Brent Pease. DGG (talk) 04:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * changed on the basis of Baileypalblue's distinctions.DGG (talk) 02:34, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

 
 * Stong keep Hudson ran the offense at a Big XII school and at an SEC school. He coached, developed and tutored numerous players who later played in the NFL.  Major did the same, though only in the SEC.  Goodner did so in both conferences, including with legendary coaches such as Grant Teaff and Spike Dykes.  There are tons of articles on Wikipedia about college athletes and coaches, and that's absolutely appropriate: they are of interest to a very wide audience, and they are significant contributors to something that hundreds of thousands of people follow in person on any given Saturday in the fall, and millions more on television.  Entertainers, musicians, actors, soccer players and coaches, fictional Star Trek or Star Wars characters . . . I don't see how the hundreds of articles in those categories are notable but articles on offensive coordinators - one step below head coach - in two of the most successful and competitive conferences in the country in NCAA football would not be.LanternLight (talk) 19:12, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To all contributors to AFD discussions: When discussing an article for AFD please so note when you are the author of the article under debate. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 17:29, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  22:26, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mayalld (talk) 14:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep all. I'm more positive than User:DGG regarding the notability of assistant coaches, especially offensive and defensive coordinators (which includes all three of these subjects).  Assistant coaches work in a higher-profile environment than assistants in most other professions; their football programs are cultural icons and receive commensurate public attention.  Coordinators often have a great deal of autonomy and may rival the head coach of their team in terms of importance; the coordinator of a major conference team is often more notable than the head coach from a small school.  I'd tend to work on the presumption that most offensive and defensive coordinators are notable.  Considering these specific cases, I would give a Week Keep to Mike Major, who seems to have had a relatively undistinguished career; but I would give a Strong Keep to Ron Hudson, who is arguably the most successful offensive coordinator in Kansas State history, and to John Goodner, who had a long and distinguished career and is a member of the Southwestern Oklahoma State University Athletic Hall of Fame.  I have updated all three articles with reliable source coverage to satisfy the general notability guideline.  Baileypalblue (talk) 01:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and to address the deletion rationale of User:WODUP, I'm not sure WP:ATHLETE is the best guideline for judging coaches, whose work is mental and not athletic; I'd be inclined to judge them by WP:CREATIVE. In any case, college football coaching is fully professional, and is not a developmental tier the way college football play is to the pros, so I don't think college coaches should be presumed non-notable based on WP:ATHLETE's rationale.  Baileypalblue (talk) 01:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.