Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ronald W Reagan Doral High School

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No Consensus Jtkiefer  T - 23:24, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ronald W Reagan Doral High School
This is schoolcruft at its max. I normally keep High School Articles but this one havent even opened yet and wont even open for another year at least. why write an article about a school that havent even open yet. Delete --Aranda56 01:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep The school is notable as an overcrowding reliever for an existing grossly overcrowded school, and what's the point of deleting an article just to have to place it back up when the school opens? Might as well keep it now.  Plus, the school building may not be open, but the school is operating with 9th graders only at the Doral Middle School campus. PRueda29 01:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Everybody always says this about "crystal ball" articles. But why not copy it to user space, leave it there, and create the article at a time when it is appropriate? With any corrections necessitated by events? Dpbsmith (talk) 01:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * But it's not a "crystal ball" article. It's something that we know will happen, already exists, and is already in progress. What's the point in copying it to userspace and recreating it later? That's more work than just leaving it alone. &hearts;purplefeltangel (talk) &hearts; (Contributions) 01:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Because it is of interest now. CalJW 07:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep; will be useful when the time comes. I would probably vote delete if it was a substub or something, but it's a well-written article with context and the potential to be a good article on the school when it opens. &hearts;purplefeltangel (talk) &hearts; (Contributions) 01:19, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - as per comments by Puplefeltangel, well written article at present--User:AYArktos | Talk 01:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, good article, written without use of a crystal ball. Kappa 01:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, well written article, and high schools are notable. -GregAsche (talk) 02:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, as per above reasons for keep. --Vsion 03:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but I think it's a bit presumptuous to say what it's Athletic Rival will be. delete thtat partFrozenPurpleCube 03:37, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Its atheltic rival has already been chosen since Miami Springs High School has no official rival and all the students at Regan/Doral will be taken from the Miami Springs Boundaries. But I guess it could be deleted until its official.  Let's see what others think.
 * Um, chosen by who? I can understand a rivalry happening, but it's not something mandatory.  My HS didn't care about anybody we played more than anyone else.  I'd say leave it off until the statement has some meaning. Like fighting over some trophy or mascot.  Preferably in a friendly manner.FrozenPurpleCube 16:37, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It's complicated, I'll just remove it. PRueda29 21:05, 23 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep well done article. Also, is it ok to have a slash (/) in article name?  I thought that was only done for sub-pages, which are used for things like AFDs, user-scratch pages, etc...  --rob 06:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The slash is part of the school's name, unfortunately; check the school's website and see. PRueda29 07:00, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is apart of the official name, no question. But, many articles don't have the *exact* official name as their article name.  The exact name must always start the article, but it doesn't have to be the article title.  A number of articles even have a message saying the article name is wrong for technical reasons.  I just wander if there are potential problems with it.  I'm not a wiki expert, but wanted to mention the issue, to get some feedback. --rob 07:11, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess it is a problem. I'll change the name/move the page PRueda29 07:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)


 * keep of course. Good article. CalJW 07:02, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Bicycle for the usual reasons.--Nicodemus75 11:23, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, WP:WIN chrystal ball, schoolcruft. Dunc|&#9786; 13:47, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Pony. I want one. We need to work on criteria for this schoolcruft/schoolvalue problem. Hipocrite - &laquo; Talk &raquo; 15:35, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It's already been done and the outcome was the high schools should not be nominated. CalJW 16:23, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * As an observer of that whole discussion, I don't think there was buy-in to that statement from all reasonable parties. Hipocrite - &laquo; Talk &raquo; 16:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * While I don't accept that "buy in ... from all reasonable parties" is attainable, I strongly agree with User:Hipocrite that further discussion leading to a policy would be very useful. The school issue bogs down AfD almost daily. (I abstain on the deletion vote.)AndyJones 17:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Disagree. Schools is dead. Requesat In Pace. The fact is, (and clearly demonstrated here and the rest of this week's nominations) that there is indeed no concensus. All of the previous attempts to reach it over the past 2 years have failed - utterly. Deletionists (not necessarily Hipocrite or AndyJones), who have waged an ongoing, destructive, war of attrition against school articles would now like to re-open some sort of negotiations to re-wrangle through previously kicked-to-death-horse issues. I see this as nothing more than a last ditch attempt to stem the tide of two inevitabilities which are ruining their campaign: First, the exponential growth of the rate of creation of new school articles (virtually impossible to AfD them as fast as they are being created). Second, the near 97% rate of survival by school articles at the AfD process. Suggestions have emerged from deletionists that the AfD process is no good, and that a new concensus has to be reached. I submit that gradual and inevitable concensus is indeed being reached - school articles are being created at a never-before-seen rate, and they are surviving the AfD process at 95%+. What this means is that if there is not already a "concensus" (of a sort) that school articles will indeed be part of WP, then there soon will be.  As the number of school articles grow and are improved over time, more and more editors will acknowledge their legitimacy, if only because there will be so many articles which will have been a part of WP for so long (by the time this is "over" it will literally be years).  AfD is doing it's job (even though it is chronically being abused to launch terrorist strikes against school articles in the form of multi and mass-nominations) - editors are voting on articles, and the articles are surviving the process.
 * '' Nicodemus75 forgot to sign. Kappa 23:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep. Currently under construction so not a crystal ball and verifiable. Good article to boot. Andrew pmk | Talk 17:27, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I must admit, this listing makes me question the nominator's motives.  The article is excellent.  Silensor 19:32, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Notable school Amren (talk) 20:30, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: There is no school.  It does not exist.  Write it when it exists, and all those taxoboxes won't do a damn thing to buff up this non-existent school.  Geogre 21:20, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Judging from the picture in the article, it's the largest thing that doesn't exist I've ever seen. Pburka 23:03, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Please do not misuse WP:NOT.  WP:NOT specifically states:  Individual scheduled or expected future events, should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. If preparation for the event isn't already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented. Examples of appropriate topics include 2008 U.S. presidential election. A schedule of future events may also be appropriate.  This article can and should be included as it is about a certain and notable institution, clearly documented as such.  Bahn Mi 22:04, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Carnildo 22:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It certainly does exist. The campus has been topped off and construction ended on September 14th, classes have begun on the Doral Middle School Campus, it has an administration, teachers, and 9th grade students, it will be holding Sports try-outs for Spring and Winter sports for this school year next Tuesday, it has a chosen mascot and colors, has an address, phone numbers, boundaries, feeder schools, and a PTA.  I don't think it qualifies as a crystal ball article just because the campus hasn't opened yet.


 * Keep any school named after "9-chloro-6-(2-fluorophenyl)-2-(2,2,2-trifluoroethyl)-2,5-diazabicyclo[5.4.0]undeca-5,8,10,12-tetraene-3-thione" Klonimus 23:37, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Abstain, although schools are not inherently notable and this one isn't either I accept high schools just so people shut up about them. However, I should note that not-a-crystal-ball doesn't seem to apply in this case, as is detailed above. Which is the real purpose of my comment. Lord Bob 23:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete It hasn't even bloody opened. How can it possibly be notable? However, I accept that I am being stampeded by a flock of sheep. Denni &#9775; 01:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Millions of dollars have already been expended in the construction of this large public institution in a major population centre of Florida. Non-notability not established. Keep. --Centauri 02:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It's the other way around, Centauri. An article is assumed to be notable unless the opposite is proven. And what on earth does the monetary value of the school have anything to do with it? Since when is X amount of dollars a sign of notability? / Peter Isotalo 03:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Neutralitytalk 22:44, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, this isn't what the crystal ball clause was meant to stop. Christopher Parham (talk) 23:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The only thing more non-notable than your average non-notable high school is a non-notable high school that hasn't even been built yet. / Peter Isotalo 03:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment --But it has been built, and it is functioning, and it's already topped off and it has students and an administration. The building exists, too!!!  It's not a like its a drawing on some paper in a folder at the school board office in downtown Miami. PRueda29 04:01, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

'Delete Just another school. Dudtz 9/29/05 5:45 PM EST
 * Delete. *drew 07:39, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * keep this article please the school exists there is even a photo of it here so how can someone say it does not exist Yuckfoo 20:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Consensus so far has been to keep schools (see Archive and Schools/Arguments). ··gracefool |&#9786; 08:13, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Schools/Arguments. It's pretty obvious that this will be completed, and if it's not, it will become even more interesting if stopped at this late point.  We should be encouraging this type of participation.    Un  focused  21:58, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nonencyclopedic -- red stucco 09:04, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete all public schools. Gazpacho 16:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm almost lost for words— the thing is even written in the future tense. This is quite sad; would really like to have seen some evidence of non-partisan, knee-jerk-free commentary, but it's not to be I guess. Clear delete, not only for the usual reasons, but this time also for WP:NOT a crystal ball.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.