Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rose MacDonnell of Antrim


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 06:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Rose MacDonnell of Antrim

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non notable. Notability is not inherited. The woman is a grandchild of someone, a wife of someone else, a sister-in-law to another, and a mother to two unnamed others. This person is unlikely to have received significant coverage anywhere. Celtus (talk) 06:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. She associates with notable people, but isn't notable on her own. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete because notability isnt transitive Corpx (talk) 17:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep The person has a full article in the Dictionary of National Biography!. furthermore, it can be found trivially by Google Books, tho you need a subscription to get the actual article). Yes, the most obvious of places, print & online. The Ref is: Jane Ohlmeyer, ‘MacDonnell, Rose, marchioness of Antrim (1631–1695)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, Sept 2004; online edn, Jan 2008 accessed 14 June 2009 (& there are other sources cited there), the GBooks search is . To write an encyclopedia takes looking for sources, not guesswork. It is time we absolutely required WP:BEFORE, because just a check of the googles would have found this. (And of course, firm consensus is that anyone with a DNB article is unquestionably notable, as a utterly reliable secondary/tertiary source of great selectivity; we should not act as if Wikipedia were the first encyclopedia to ever be written. (Incidentally, the reason she has a DNB entry in the first place is that she played a major role in the wars of the period, rescuing her husband's lineage both financially, during his life and politically afterward. The eds. there not surprisingly can judge notability more reliably than the eds. here.  ) DGG (talk) 05:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The article up for deletion is about Rose MacDonnell, daughter of Randal MacDonnell, 1st Earl of Antrim, son of Sorley Boy MacDonnell. However, the 'Rose MacDonnell' listed on the ODNB ("MacDonnell [née O'Neill, Rose, marchioness of Antrim (1631–1695), noblewoman"]) is about someone else: Rose O'Neill, daughter of Henry O'Neill. This 'Rose O'Neill' was the second wife to Randal MacDonnell, 1st Marquess of Antrim, son of Randall MacDonnell, 1st Earl of Antrim. So what this all means is that 'Rose O'Neill' is a sister-in-law to the one the article is about. So we are right back to square one. There is no ODNB bio on our 'Rose', and the googlebook links turn up three sentences which only state that our 'Rose' was a wife to Colonel Gordon.--Celtus (talk) 04:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep It seem that one or more people of this name is notable and so the article should be developed further to clarify the facts of the matter. Deletion is not helpful in this. Colonel Warden (talk) 17:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You want to keep a bio on a non-notable person because it seems like there are other people with the same name. Huh?--Celtus (talk) 04:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We do not have to delete an article completely in order to create a new version and, by keeping earlier versions, we retain an audit trail which respects our contributors in accordance with our licence and enables the easy correction of mistakes. Please see our deletion policy which states, "If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a good candidate for AfD.". Colonel Warden (talk) 05:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per Celtus with the expectation that DGG will modify his view in light of the comment under his post. Cheers, Jack Merridew 06:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.