Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roy Clinton (“Bud”) Johns, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I am seeing a strong argument for passing GNG based on SIGVOV. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:55, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Roy Clinton (“Bud”) Johns, Jr.

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Non-notable individual lacking support to establish notability. red dogsix (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 00:12, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 00:12, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Probable Keep There is WP:SIGCOV, such as this 1981 UPI story: 40-mile Ride and Tie; New kind of marathon is based on Old West practice.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:53, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - This is hardly in-depth or non-trivial sourcing. red dogsix (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * WP:HEYMANN I added a few sources. The  many varieties of his name may be part of the problem here.  Searching under "Bud Johns" it is easy to establish such facts as his major role as a successful, longtime communications director building the Levis brand.  And even easier to show that he is credited with being the founder of the modern sport of Ride and Tie, sourcing on that has WP:SIGCOV in many articles that I have not added to the page (I added a handful of what I saw) and it is certainly a valid claim to notability. His role as founder is widely covered over many years in WP:RS.   Certainly article can and should be improved using the many sources available, with the caveat that sources about activities in the 1970s and 80s don't pop up at the top of searches.  Nom came to this when it was a virtually unsourced page on a person whose very common name and nickname make searching difficult, but WP:HEY, this page now meets WP:ANYBIO, criterion #2 :  he founded a pretty popular sport.  Not a sport I previously knew about, but the news media sure covers Ride and Tie and his role in establishing it.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:52, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - The article Is still lacking in-depth, non-trivial support to establish red dogsix (talk) 04:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. The article has very good references, and it fulfills all the notability requirements, it should be kept in the enciclopedia.Fructisgarnier (talk) 22:30, 19 February 2018 (UTC) — Fructisgarnier (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - The article Is still lacking in-depth, non-trivial support to establish red dog</b><i style="color:#000;">six</i> (talk) 04:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Please do not bite the newcomers. Puzzled by User:Reddogsix's attitude, I went to look at article creator's page, which shows several weeks of attempts to delete this page and investigations of editors supporting page for sockpuppetry - which it all may well have been.  To me, however, what this looks like is an attempt by a WP:NEWCOMER to create a bio page - whether the NEWBIE is Johns, someone who loves or admires Johns, or a Ride and Tie aficionado, I cannot say.  What I can say in that rather tan starting a series of PRODs, and notices turning down article at articles for submission, and AfD and, finally, a sockpuppet investigation, someone might have simply explained to the newbie the basic approach to sourcing an article in plain English.  Our templates only seem clear to us, to most people they are as arcane and impenetrable as a game of cricket is to an American.  Or someone might have sourced some part of the article to show the NEWBIE page creator how sourcing is done.  What I am appalled by is this sort of aggression-by-template on an obvious NEWBIE.  This is not the way to welocme NEWWBIES to the project.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:29, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The facts on this bio page - (well, most of them, I have tagged some for sourcing) - are supported by WP:RS, often a sentence or two in a longer article, about Johns' career, jobs held, marriage (big city daily obit of first wife), donations of art to museums, and so forth.  There are somewhat longer passages describing his role as the founder of Ride and Tie, a sport that, according to numerous articles in major publications, he created in his role as the longtime Communications Director for Levis jeans.  The idea was to buff the corporate image by backing something more unique than a tennis or golf tournament, and, according to the New York Times, (ON YOUR OWN; A Long-Distance Event That's Not So Lonely) Ride & Tie fit the image Levis wanted to cultivate.  Ride and Tie is such a colorful sport that searching the various versions of John's name in Proquest news archive, I came upon literally scores of articles published over the course of the 5 decades since this sport was created by Johns in 1971, all discussing his role, and published  in major national magazines (Sports Illustrated THE RIDE &amp; TIE RACE DEMANDS LOTS OF STAMINA AND PLENTY OF HORSE SENSE], and daily papers, many with INDEPTH, far from "trivial" coverage of Johns' role: Extreme horse racing: Where man and beast both run] (Christian Science Monitor, 2007); "These Marathoners Get on Their Mark, Get Set and Giddyap: Annual Race in Utah Requires Running and Riding Skills; One Steed for Two People These Marathoners Get on Their Mark, Get Set and Giddyap" (Wall Street Journal, 1984]]).  While I find it convenient to use a news archive - plus it gives a better idea of the universe of coverage of a topic - here is a non-paywalled, 1983 article in the Washington Post "There is a lot of strategy involved in deciding when to run and when to ride," said Bud Johns, who devised this sport in 1971 while working in the public relations department for Levi's jeans. "We didn't want to sponsor just another tennis or golf tournament that you'd forget about a week later." Johns has been researching the ride-and-tie concept of travel for almost 25 years. Ask about its origins and he will cite historical precedents as far back as 18th Century England. "I tell people that Joseph and Mary were ride-and-tying to Bethlehem, but I can't document it," says Johns, who has a white beard, blue eyes and the kind of craggy face you'd expect to find peering into a pan for mountain gold...."]  Other articles go into more detail, but even this one, stating that Johns "devised this sport in 1971 while working in the public relations department for Levi's jeans" cannot be dismissed as "trivial."E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:06, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 08:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * keep Meets the GNG. What else is needed?Sandals1 (talk) 16:46, 26 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.