Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rubashkin crime family


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy delete. Obvious G10 Courcelles 07:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Rubashkin crime family

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Courtesy blanking was proposed under CSD G10 John Nagle (talk) 04:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

(Speedy deletion was proposed, and is contested, so an AfD is appropriate under WP:DP to resolve the issue. See this version of the article for the content.)

The main issue here is the title of the article. The article content is a list of members of the R. family who have been convicted of crimes or are out on bail awaiting trial. This totals six people. All criminal activity is properly cited to reliable sources such as the New York Times, and is not in dispute. The question is whether putting those items in the same article constitutes "synthesis" under Wikipedia rules. There was some previous discussion of simply titling the article "Rubashkin family", but mixing the crooks and the non-crooks in the same article seemed to create WP:BLP issues. The use of the term "crime family" is the sticking point. An alternative title might fix the problem. This needs some neutral observers. Thanks. --John Nagle (talk) 05:17, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, John, the issue is not whether putting them all in the same article constitutes synthesis. The issue is that any article under this name is an obvious violation of CSD:G10. Which requires deletion of the article, not renaming. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 05:56, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete per WP:CSD, as an attack page. Not one reliable source discusses the Rubashkin family as a "crime family." In general such an article would be deleted via afd on WP:SYNTH grounds. But as we are dealing with numerous WP:BLP's, the article must be deleted as an attack page.-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 05:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a tough call. Five of them are convicted criminals, and there's no argument about that. The Forward, usually considered a reliable source, has editorialized on the family's record, pulling together the family's various criminal activities in a single article. They wrote "Agriprocessors is one of a network of businesses owned by the Rubashkin family, a large, tight-knit clan identified with the Lubavitch community in Brooklyn. The operations, like the family, may be considered a package." So there's a reliable source for pulling all this together. The phrase "crime family" may be a bit much.  Can anyone suggest other language?  {Simply using "family" was considered, but mixing up the crooks and the non-crooks in the family raised WP:BLP issues.)  --John Nagle (talk) 05:37, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the Rubashkin family, there does not seem to be independent notability beyond the criminal activity. As I mention below, an article about them as a "crime family" is inappropriate.  An article about them as a "family" is non-notable. Joe407 (talk) 05:49, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. The term crime family  refers not to a blood family but to an organized crime syndicate. The Rubashkin family is not an organized syndicate but rather a bunch of criminals who are related. At most, this should be renamed just "Rubashkin family" but I tend towards delete because it violates BLP rules for the family at large (i.e. anyone with that last name who is not a criminal) and WP:SYNTH as pointed out by User:Brewcrewer. Joe407 (talk) 05:46, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Obvious speedy CSD:G10 clealy states "Both the page title and page content may be taken into account in assessing an attack." Nagle has been informed of this repeatedly at the article talk page, but is disrupting process by trying to make it an AFD issue. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 05:52, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not inappropriate to report negative information about convicted criminals, and so it's not obvious at all that this is an attack page. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:12, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Rename to Rubashkin family and change references in the article. Everything besides the fact it is a crime family is referenced. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 06:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, the article is very well sourced, most of the individuals already have their own articles and/or are featured prominently in articles such as Agriprocessors, and they have been treated collectively in reliable sources. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.