Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russian Linesman (musician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. While we like to and should be encourage new editors, consensus here is that this artist does not meet out notability standards. I hope that User:Sarah76 sticks around and continues to contribute to Wikipedia. J04n(talk page) 11:36, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Applause for putting off contributers. Keep it in house. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.74.97 (talk) 12:15, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Russian Linesman (musician)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

NN musician. I can't find sources to support half of the claims nor can I find actual in-depth coverage. All other instances of "Russian Linesman" appear to be related to an art gallery or a football player. Fails GNG. CHRISSY MAD ❯❯❯  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  20:28, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

I have listed all sources such as reputable ones like BBC. Search any online music service such as iTunes and SPotify and you will find this artist. The page contains no claims that are without source. Sarah76 (talk) 21:19, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 00:15, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 00:15, 14 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep The recordings claim is rebuffed at https://www.discogs.com/artist/447757-Russian-Linesman, although it's not a RS. Three feature-length interviews at the niche web publications: http://www.dmcworld.net/uncategorized/russian-linesman/ https://change-underground.com/russian-linesman-electronica/ http://newsflash.bigshotmag.com/features/54023/ . This seems to satisfy WP:GNG. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:31, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. Self releasing albums through your own vanity label does not satisfy WP:MUSIC#5. Talking about yourself does not satisfy WP:MUSIC#1 or GNG. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:07, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I have found a review from the British Psychological Society. This is a reliable source. Sarah76 (talk) 21:50, 15 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment: I’m inclined to say delete. Those sources cited by Walter Görlitz (talk) are first person interviews with the subject, which surprises me why a veteran AfD editor would interpret them as qualifying criteria. The other sources are promotional . The Psychologist source is an odd duck; although possibly a reliable source among psychology professionals, this one reads like a blog post, including a link to the subject's soundcloud page. What gives me pause is the BBC reference. Can anyone enlighten me on the significance of BBC6? It appears to be a digital streaming service not unlike i-tunes or spotify and it is not the same as being on rotation on their regular commercial channels, although it has programing with presenters. This programing appears to be a mixed bag of significant and unimportant, ranging from archival recordings by notable performers to amateurs who submit their music. I’m holding off from i-voting until I can get some clarity on the significance of this subject having had his music played there. ShelbyMarion (talk) 08:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * First-person interviews are not a problem provided that they are WP:RSes. If I'm wrong, show my at GNG where they are not considered as such. You may be confusing first-person with WP:PRIMARY. Cheers. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:04, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * 6Music is not available on analogue radio, no, but it is widely available via digital means of transmission and has, I believe, higher listening figures than the classical station Radio 3 (which does have national FM coverage). I think you are underestimating the prestige the station has acquired for itself; it has become a sort of "new generation's Radio 4" as part of the establishmentisation of rock music in the UK.  It has a significant new-establishment cultural status (which is precisely what puts me, probably one of 1Xtra's oldest regular listeners, off it, but that's not the point).  btw the BBC's more mainstream popular music stations, Radios 1 & 2, do not carry commercials; admittedly they are more "commercial" in the broader sense, but no BBC outlet in the UK carries direct advertising.  HTH.  RobinCarmody (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I must I say I didn't realise how well moderated Wikipedia is. This is my first article. Hope I haven't caused any problems. Sarah76 (talk) 21:43, 16 March 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 04:36, 21 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Comments: Greetings and welcome to the world of Wikipedia. We do have a policy of not biting a newcommer. With admitted unlimited space there is always room for improvement and good additions. I just saw this and am about to go to bed so haven't had a chance to dig into it. I will state that with what I have seen on the sources I "might" be inclined to also !vote delete. Either of the last two !voting delete would likely result in a delete. "If" a delete is decided you can ask the admin to userfy. You can also provide acceptable sources that some of us may not have access to which would allow a HEY. I will state that "if" sourcing concerns are not addressed there will likely be another nomination even if a "no consensus" is given. This is a BLP and the standards are higher than for other articles. I placed a BLP template on the "new" talk page. Primary sources can not be used to advance notability. I am going to step out and see how it goes but will check in and "if" kept will follow the article. I do not like starting AFD's so hopefully you can make some improvements. Again, being a biography, there needs to be some referenced content along those lines. The last sentence has no source so this is a BLP with no personal information like birthday and year, and other normally given biographical content. Lacking this it appears commercial. Another issue is an orphan article. I am tired but good luck, Otr500 (talk) 05:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I do not feel this article is an "orphan". There are links to this page from the following pages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eelke_Kleijn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeskola_Buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Davis_(musician)#Remixes I also feel the BBC and BPS are very reliable sources. Not sure what I have done wrong with this article. Sarah76 (talk) 17:24, 21 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Good job and progress. The problems are not what you "have done wrong" it is that what is missing is important for what the Wikipedia community (of which you have included yourself) considers to be notable for inclusion. The BBC source (BBC Radio 6 Music) is titled |Nemone's Electric Ladyland and subtitled with The Russian Linesman (an apparent clip doesn't work). Although this reference may be alright for content an issue is the notability of a person (subject) that includes WP:MUSICBIO and Biographies of living persons. The source provided is not about the subject ,and this is self evident with the title, and there is an image that I am sure is not the subject as the article is loaded with pronouns "He" and "he". This is an AFD and I am not being ugly when I state that "what have I done wrong" should be "what can I do to fix the article. Two very possible delete !votes have held off but "if there are no better sources for "notability" then I would suggest asking the article to be userfied (you can wait to see "if" it is deleted and ask that admin if you like) or you can roll the dice. I can look at other of the sources but I glanced at this one and agree that first person interviews, primary sources, and trivial mention (subtitles or other sources that do not directly cover the subject) do not advance notability. A subject that self-produces is considered primary and needs other reliable sources to back this up. If I can help I do not mind but the article is not even on the same planet with things I generally cover. This is a good thing because we need coverage of "all things possible, that can be reliably sourced.
 * I checked BBC Music (I actually joined to look deeper) and again we are looking at mention of this "Nemone's Electric Ladyland". I looked again and the title of this article is still "Russian Linesman (musician)" Otr500 (talk) 21:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. I gave this a second look with the re-listing, and appreciate RobinCarmody addressing my question about BB6. I’m going with delete. All manner of notable and non-notable performers have appeared on or have had their music played on the BBC, and to have an entry on the BBC’s website that reflects that is not the same as having one’s music in regular rotation. The appearance on Electric Ladyland was a 15 minute segment near the end of a 2 hour program, a regular feature where a different musician/music industry type is asked to play three favorite songs by other artists. But the bigger problem is the lack of decent sources. There are three interviews with small, niche music websites, one of which, Change Underground, is a user submitted website for musicians to promote themselves. See this: https://change-underground.com/category/about-c-u/ . The other two, while they lack similar links for verification have articles written with similar verbiage and are equally suspicious of their independence of the promotional interest of the subject . The BPS Psychologist is not a reliable source. It is user submitted per this: https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/contribute. ShelbyMarion (talk) 13:17, 23 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.