Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 12:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia

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WP:POVFORK created by a seemingly well-meaning pro-Georgian user. It seems that the term "Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia" started to be used in Georgia to refer to War in Abkhazia (1992–93) or the Abkhaz–Georgian conflict in general (although it is far from being a common name for the conflict) and the user wants a separate article presenting the Georgian view of the conflict. There is already a section on Russian intervention in War in Abkhazia (1992–93) and I believe this name should redirect there, or to the Abkhaz–Georgian conflict article for broader scope. No longer a penguin (talk) 07:45, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Just a copy of War in Abkhazia (1992-93) with much less info and more bias. The term War in Abkhazia is much more widely used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serafart (talk • contribs) 23:07, 2016 June 1


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Leave it Before considering deletion please read the explanation: War in Abkhazia was internationalized due to Russia's heavy participation against Georgia. As you know Abkhazia had no planes or navy, bombing of Abkhazian towns and villages were conducted by Russia from their military bases and from the sea. See references in original article. By definition international war is when military attack is conducted outside of its territory.


 * Second: Georgian officials blamed Russia in conducting war against Georgia in Abkhazia.
 * Third and most important: The situation is simmilar to War in Tskhinvali region - see article Russo-Georgian War (2008).
 * In both situation separatists supported by Russia were demanding independence from Georgia. In both situation conflict started between local inhabitants and developed to war between Russia and Georgia. Now we have wikipeia article on Russo-Georgian War in 2008, and it's logical to have similar article describng Russo-Georgian War in 1991-93.


 * P.S. I think mentioning pro-Georgian is not correct in this case, since the author (me) is Georgian.
 * Please provide arguments before considering deletion. Otherwise others may call you Pro-Russian in the same way.


 * We talk about importance of existing of Russo-Georgian War article. Even pro-russian authors agree that war was between Georgia and Russia. In Russian press and social networks such definition is commonly used . see also Russian TV program explaining that Ukrainians were fighting in Abkhazia against Russia, supporting Georgia. [video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ9cKe_mOs]
 * I have found even youtube Channel called Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia.


 * Let's discuss definition of Wars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.169.46.141 (talk) 11:51, 2016 June 3‎ --188.169.46.141 (talk) 22:13, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Your response misses the point of the nomination. I am not arguing with you on the role Russia played in the conflict. I am not even arguing that the conflict is sometimes referred to as Russo-Georgian War. However, it is still the exact same conflict (or one aspect of the conflict) as War in Abkhazia (1992–93) and there should only be one article on the conflict. If you want to include information about Russian participation, that is where you should do it. If you think that "War in Abkhazia" is not the WP:COMMONNAME, you should propose a move in the article War in Abkhazia (1992–93). We don't have a separate article for each name any given conflict is referred to. For example American Rebellion does not present American Revolution from the British point of view, instead it redirects to the latter article. Similarly Great Patriotic War redirects to the Eastern Front (World War II), despite being a super popular term in Russia. No longer a penguin (talk) 10:36, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In addition, your reference to the Russo-Georgian War in 2008 just proves the point - there is only one article on the conflict (and it's named using the most common name). There is no Georgian–Ossetian War (2008), despite the fact that Ossetians played a role in it. Instead, the role of the Ossentians is covered in the text of that one article.No longer a penguin (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi. My intention is not to separate all episodes. And of source not to mess everything.
 * There are two articles relating to War in Abkhazia. 1- War in Abkhazia and Second - Georgian-Abkhaz Conflict. The second article (title) points to two parties of the conflict, fading the War with Russia.
 * If we follow your logic, Georgian-Abkhaz conflict must be included in War in Abkhazia, along with Russo-Georgian conflict in Abkhazia. But since these articles are published separately, I proposed dedicated article for Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia.
 * My second argument is that in case of War in South Ossetia, we have both articles: Russo-Georgian War and Georgian-Ossetian Conflict. Both relate to one place and one conflict. But they are separated.  Why not to use same model with the war in Abkhazia? (Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia  and Georgian-Abkhazian Conflict).
 * The difference is that Georgia failed to promote this definition in 90s. Maybe lack of Wikipedia played the role:)
 * And finally, for which reason wiki should avoid naming the fact by it's own name? If that was the war between Russia and Georgia, let's name it so. If that was not a war - close the issue.
 * Hope my arguments are clear.
 * Zviad Pochkhua --188.169.46.141 (talk) 21:01, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I got your point relating to Great Patriotic War and Eastern Front. They present different titles and relate to one event. Though the later title was popular in Germany not in Russia, where it was called Вели́кая Оте́чественная война́. (I just sow that there is another article "Great Patriotic War (term)" which is separated and does not redirect to Eastern Front. According to your logic it must be included in Eastern Front article. Otherwise it points to double standards of Wiki editors, especially when it concerns Russia)
 * But the main difference is that here in case of Abkhazia, existence of articles (Georgian-Abkhaz Conflict and War In Abkhazia) and absence of Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia defends Russian point of view - that there was only Abkhaz-Georgian ethnic conflict.
 * As you mentioned, Georgian point of view is that War in Abkhazia was Russo-Georgian, and the rest were sub-conflicts.
 * If the aim of wiki is to keep everything in one article, than you need to have one WAR in ABKHAZIA with subtitles (Russo-Georgian Conflict in Abkhazia, Georgian-Abkhaz Conflict etc)
 * Zviad Pochkhua--188.169.46.141 (talk) 21:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom - this is a duplicate of existing articles, and doesn't seem to be a likely search term Nick-D (talk) 06:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - inferior/PoV version of War in Abkhazia (1992–93) under less common title - could remain as a redirect - Arjayay (talk) 17:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Leave it I think an author has provided enough arguments. -- g. balaxaZe   ★  11:07, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Except the author did not answer any of the points of the nomination. Is it about the same event as War in Abkhazia (1992–93)? YES. Is it presenting it from a different point of view? YES. Then it's a WP:POVFORK and should be deleted.
 * The author provided a lot of arguments for (1) what role Russia played in the conflict and (2) why the War in Abkhazia turned out as the WP:COMMONNAME. However, the (1) should be included in the already existing article (and, in fact, is included extensively) and (2) is irrelevant, since Wikipedia policies make no distinction of "why" any given name is the common name, only that it "is" the common name. Finally, the author draws incomplete parallels with the situation in Ossetia: we have two articles, because they are on two different stages of the conflict: Georgian-Ossetian Conflict (which covers everything from 1980s onwards) and Russo-Georgian War (which was the escalation in 2008). The reason why the second stage is called Russo-Georgian War is because it is the WP:COMMONNAME. Similarly for Abkhazia, we have two articles already: Georgian-Ossetian Conflict about the conflict since the 1980s, and the War in Abkhazia (1992-93), which was the escalation in 1992-1993. The difference is that the WP:COMMONNAME for that conflict is NOT "Russo-Georgian War in Abkhazia", so the author created a third article that duplicates the two existing ones, but from a Georgian POV. No longer a penguin (talk) 11:29, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.