Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rusty Baker


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The arguments based on a lack of secondary sources show a clear consensus to delete. Kevin (talk) 23:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Rusty Baker

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Non-notable race car driver. Speedy and Prod declined. Hairhorn (talk) 04:59, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak delete I'm having a very hard time finding sources for this article. Notability seems to be asserted in the article, but Google searches aren't really turning up anything for this particular Rusty Baker. There's plenty of coverage of other individuals named Rusty Baker, however. In any case, I'm wondering whether notability might be established from offline sources, since Baker apparently hasn't raced since 2005 – so maybe his prime was back during the 1990s. Anyway, in its present state, this article fails WP:BIO and WP:V, hence my vote for deletion. If anyone can find reliable sources established the subject's notability, I will switch my vote to keep. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 16:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I have added some pertinent information that I have learned Rusty's stepson, Keegan. Some of his statistics are on Bronson Motor Speedway's website. Unfortunatly, the site is currently unaccessable. Once whatever glitch is going on with the site is fixed, I will add all information I can find on their. I will continue to gather more offline information in the meantime in an attempt to make the article more relevant. Unfortunatly, like most successful short track drivers, Rusty's career wins are impossible to count. He did not keep track of every race he won and he gave away most of his trophies in Victory Lane. He now has less than 100 left. Stats that can be tracked, however, are his ASA and Hooters Pro Cup Series races. I will be adding those soon. Online sources are difficult to find, but I will continue searching for more. --Johncoracing48 (talk) 22:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. No evidence of notability. Information obtained from non-published sources, such as private communication with his stepson, certainly does not establish notability. Adding more information and statistics about Baker is not the point: the point is to add reliable sources for the information we already have. I have spent some time searching, and can find no evidence at all that Baker comes anywhere near satisfying Notability (people): in fact I can't find anything about him at all. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment As I said before James, the website that has citations about his career is currently unavailable. I said this earlier in my last entry. If you would have read it, you wouldn't have wasted so much time searching for what is not currently their. I suggest you doing so in the future. Anyway, I have been speaking to the USAR Pro Cup Series for an official compilation of his stats in that series. I'm also working on a few other notable sources but I need more time!--Johncoracing48 (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Only one !vote per poster, please. Further remarks should be labelled Comment. Peridon (talk) 22:08, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment One thing that concerns me is how notable the racing itself was. If that can be shown for the benefit of those of us who think speedway is for motorbikes (and whose only experience of it is patching up kids who've fallen off...), things will have moved on a bit. Reliable sources still need to be posted for Baker's sucess, too. Peridon (talk) 22:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I say we should let this article stand. The gentleman defending this article seems to have a plan for building this article into a respectable article via citations. I have searched for this Bronson Motor Speedway he speaks of and he is right, the website is currently unavailable. I believe that the article should stand. End this discussion and wait for him to produce citations and then reevaluate it's relevance.--Face the ace (talk) 02:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC) — Face the ace (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Comment I have added a referance to BAKERacing's History page on their website. It states many of the things mentioned in the article. This will have to do for now.--Johncoracing48 (talk) 04:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm afraid an 'in-house' site doesn't count towards notability. Nor do blogs, forums or Wikipedia itself even... Peridon (talk) 17:10, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * CommentSo you're discrediting the only primary source that's currently available?This is no different then getting imformation about a Sprint Cup driver from his team's site. That's allowed, is it not?--Johncoracing48 (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Not discrediting it - what we need is third party sources to confirm it. Neutral sources. Sources that aren't editable or addable to. Anyone can create a website and claim anything. Getting information from such a site is one thing. It can be challenged - provided the challenger either adds a 'citation required' or provides a reference for their view of things. Using it to establish notability is against Wikipedia guidelines and policies. If you don't like the way Wikipedia works, then you are quite free to start your own encyclopaedia. Peridon (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I would add (as one who spends time monitoring the input of new accounts) that these policies are needed. If you saw the number of articles that say nothing much more than 'Shaun is awesome!!!!!!!' or the equivalent, or which are pure advertising material, or which are (sometimes well constructed) hoaxes, you would understand. Peridon (talk) 22:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment I understand. I apolgize for losing my temper there. I'm kust having trouble finding third party sources. As I have said before, the site we can use as a third party source is currently unavailable. I'm just frustrated because I can't access it and time is running out.--Johncoracing48 (talk) 22:34, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You can recreate the article when evidence comes to hand, or the article can be userfied (transferred back to your user space) until such time, or there now appears to be something called the incubator where things can be stored outside the main encyclopaedia space. Ask an admin person about these choices if you need more info. (We are here to help people - if they want to be helped. Some just go batting on. I'd rather see an article saved than deleted. Sometimes calling for deletion brings to light stuff that had been overlooked before.) Peridon (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Ok thanks.--Johncoracing48 (talk) 23:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per the lack of any coverage in reliable sources. This topic fails Verifiability and Notability (people). Furthermore, this is the biography of a living person, so the fact that it has no sources means that it should be deleted. Cunard (talk) 01:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep It seems that Johncoracing48 is working on correct sources. I agree with Face the ace: we should let him have the time for the sources to fix themselves. We shouldn't delete this article jsut because of a glitch out of the author's control. It's obvious that at least one reliable source is in the works. --Kegz15 (talk) 01:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC) — Kegz15 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I do not see any reliable sources in the article. Please explain link to the source that you are referring to. Cunard (talk) 01:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I feel that Johncoracing48 is doing everything he can do to get this information and I have checked to find out if the bakeracing@yolasite.com is the official site of BAKERacing and have dtermined it is. I also feel that if there are any other thrid paties out there He will find them and make them links and show Rusty Baker's impact on the sport. I personally have been a fan of Rusty's in more than one way since I was born and he is still talked about all over the state of Fl. as one of the great short track racers of Florida. If we give Johncoracing48 more time I'm sure he will get the information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingtut601 (talk • contribs) 03:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you've missed a point here. No-one disputes that the bakeracing site is official. That's precisely why it isn't valid by Wikipedia rules as a reliable reference. Please see my chat above with Johncoracing48 about the need for third party refs - and what can be done until they come up all bright eyed and bushy tailed. Peridon (talk) 12:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak delete as non-notable athlete according to WP:ATH and no reliable sources per WP:RS. USARacing (formerly Hooters Pro Cup) and ASA are neither professional level nor the highest level of amateur racing, they are both regional semipros. Chuckiesdad/Talk/Contribs 03:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment Every driver in each of those series begs to differ with you Chuck. Regardless of what level of professionalism you believe it to be, you muss the point. We're not trying to make him a racing superstar, having raced in all the top levels of racing. He is relevant because of the affect he had on people and the sheer amount of success he had in his as you say "level" of racing. We view him as a Buzzie Reutimann rather than a Richard Petty. By the way, you have elicited my interest. What is the highest level of amatuer racing and what is the lowest level of professional racing?
 * Note to all new account holders posting here Will you please read the relevant policies on notability, and also take note that however good a job Johncoracing48 is doing, it's not helped by you saying to keep the article because you've heard of Baker. Johncoracing48 has listened to us, and is trying his best. If the others would try to find some suitable references (see above for indications of what is required), then please let us have them. Until, you're just wasting time. Peridon (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.