Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Martin (boxer) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Clearly this guy is a subject of sustained media interest. Whether he really has made waves in the boxing world, a question raised by several delete votes, is not for us to judge. Shii (tock) 03:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Ryan Martin (boxer)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Relisting per Deletion review/Log/2015 January 6. This article was deleted in a Afd, but a review was requested. The outcome of that review was to relist the article for a fresh AfD. I am listing this as an administrative action only, and offer no opinion on the outcome.-- RoySmith (talk) 02:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC) Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: Why he’s a prospect: Martin had a very impressive amateur background during which he fought over 200 fights, winning 12 national titles to form a very solid base from which to start. Martin won the National Junior Golden Gloves title three times (2005-07), the National Silver Gloves (2005) and National Junior Olympics (2006) among other tournaments. He also competed in numerous international duels. His U-19 National title win in 2009 should be viewed as the biggest success of his amateur career. Early in Martin’s amateur career he was tabbed by then middleweight champion of the world Jermain Taylor as one to look out for. Taylor dubbed Martin “Kid London.”   The article notes: "US lightweight boxer Ryan ‘Blue Chip’ Martin has signed a two-year endorsement deal with Revolution Wear’s Frigo brand. As part of the sponsorship Martin will where Frigo underwear during every weigh-in and fight for the next two years. He will also wear a new uniform designed by Everlast which will feature the Frigo logo for every fight. Cleveland-based Martin launched his endorsement of the underwear brand in last night’s match at the Roseland Ballroom in which he defeated Jose Del Valle. Martin, a client of Curtis ‘50 Cent’ Jackson’s SMS Promotions, made his professional debut against Darus Somieri on 16th September 2013 in New York."  The article notes: "After more than 200 amateur fights and 12 national championships under various labels, Chattanooga boxer Ryan Martin has gone pro. And he's hooked up with someone whose very name means coin. Martin, most recently a Golden Gloves 132- and 141-pound open participant, is set to make his professional debut in the 135-pound lightweight class on Sept. 16 at the Resorts World Casino in New York City. He has a promotional deal with SMS Promotions, owned by rapper 50 Cent."  The article notes: "Ryan Martin was pushing a lawnmower around a Hixson front yard last September, trying to put an extra $20 in his pocket, when his cell phone rang. 'It was [the rapper] 50 Cent and Tim [VanNewhouse],' he said. 'They wanted me to box for them full time. I couldn't believe it.' Assuming 'Blue Chip' Martin improves to 5-0 following tonight's lightweight bout against Misael Chacon in Monroeville, Pa., the whole country could believe in him come July 2. That's when ESPN would televise a bout including Martin on its 'Wednesday Night Fight' show."  The article notes: "Pro boxer Ryan Martin goes from the ring to the big screen in 50 Cent's newest music video. The song is conveniently named 'Winners Circle' and it makes sense because since Martin turned pro he's spent a lot of time in the winners circle. Martin signed with 50 Cent's boxing label SMS Promotions last year. The former West Side Boxer in Chattanooga is off to a 5-0 pro start with three knockouts."  The article notes: "From his residence in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, Ryan Martin said it was 'awesome' that Central High School was in the state football playoffs and had a winning record this year. The Purple Pounders' record is not nearly as impressive as the 21-year-old Central graduate's. He's 8-0 as a professional lightweight boxer in less than 14 months of action. He tries this evening to go to 9-0 -- 7-0 in 2014. But Martin, a protege of rapper 50 Cent through SMS Promotions, is fighting his toughest opponent to date in his most prestigious setting."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Ryan Martin to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 02:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Significant coverage is defined in Notability, which says: "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." Notability (sports)/FAQ says: "Q6: What constitutes 'non-routine' secondary coverage for sports? A6: Routine news coverage of sporting events, such as descriptions of what occurred, is not considered to be sufficient basis for an article, following Wikipedia's policy of not being a place for routine news coverage. There should be significant coverage directly related to the subject. In addition to Wikipedia's guidance on reliable sources, also see Wikipedia's guidance on biographies of living persons for more information." Whether there is "significant coverage directly related to the subject" determines whether the coverage is "routine" or not. Not other criteria. Cunard (talk) 02:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: I have notified all the participants at Deletion review/Log/2015 January 6 and Articles for deletion/Ryan Martin (boxer) about this AfD. Cunard (talk) 03:05, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: There are some possible copyright issues with the article as it is presently written. Boxing Scene article's first lines: "From a young age Martin was highly touted The Ohio resident was dubbed 'Kid London' by Jermain Taylor...", Wikipedia article's first lines (under 'Amateur career' heading): "From a young age Martin was highly touted; he was dubbed the name "Kid London" by famed Jermain Taylor" Shearonink (talk) 03:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I put that verbatim text from BoxingScene in quotation marks. I spotchecked several parts of the article and found one other copyright issue, which I fixed. Cunard (talk) 04:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Martin seems to be "world famous in Chattanooga" and consequently all coverage is in the Chattanooga Times Free Press or a local radio station. I find this exclusively local coverage insufficient to pass GNG. As it was firmly established in the previous AfD (and DRV) that he does not meet NBOX, there is nothing else left. (Note: I closed the original AfD). --Randykitty (talk) 06:48, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you feel there is a problem with "The Ring" as a source? It clearly isn't local and it's exactly the publication one would hope to see a boxer in. Hobit (talk) 11:43, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The monthly British magazine SportsPro is another non-local source about the subject. Link to the article, which I've added to my list of sources above. Cunard (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep young but seems to meet #4 Notability Requirement as stated above. As I said the first time In ictu oculi (talk) 09:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * except since as was argued first time round, #4 is widely recognised not to include junior competitions. So you are probably going to have to give people a bit more to work with here than a vague wave at a guideline. What is the competition that you think qualifies? Is it junior or senior? Is there any precedent for this? --nonsense ferret  12:28, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete As neatly summarized by Randykitty. My vote in the original AfD called him a big fish in a small pond - lots of local fuss.  He does not meet WP:NBOX with a career mostly as a junior and almost dids.  Coverage not sufficient to meet WP:GNG alone.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:26, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 09:29, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep, meets WP:N. And concern about local-only sources are met by coverage in "The Ring".  Hobit (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm leaning towards Keep. According to The Ring (magazine)'s website, the guy did get the National Junior Golden Gloves title three times (from 2005 to 2007), the National Silver Gloves once and the National Junior Olympics once.  I looked at notability guidelines for boxing and don't see any clear delineation against including someone who was a multiple National Junior Champion/Junior Golden Gloves winner. Shearonink (talk) 18:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you think There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject for boxer to meet Notability, ? C.dunkin (talk) 20:09, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Doesn't meet the notability criteria for boxers at WP:NBOX since junior titles (no matter how many you win) have never been considered to show martial arts (including boxing) notability. As for GNG, I've seen hundreds of athletes with lots of local coverage but few of them become notable.  The prospect profile in Ring is a start towards meeting the GNG, although being called a prospect means he's not yet achieved notability.Mdtemp (talk) 21:20, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Notability is a "term of art" on Wikipedia meaning he meets WP:N, which is solely about independent reliable sources. It doesn't mean he's famous or even a good boxer. Heck, if the NYT and Washington Post both wrote detailed articles about how bad of a boxer he was, he'd meet WP:N.  Hobit (talk) 01:28, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Ring Magazine is a looong established magazine-its boxing's equivalent of Tiger Beat, Time Magazine, People Magazine, Elle, Popular Mechanics...you get it, it's a historical magazine that's become arguably part of Americana. Being profiled or having an article there means you are notable. Antonio United States' Benefactor Martin (Tell me whyyy? (like The Beatles' song))11:00 January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete He doesn't meet the notability criteria for boxers. As for meeting GNG, the Ring magazine article is OK but I need to see some additional significant coverage from something other than the local paper. Papaursa (talk) 20:50, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I will gather additional sources other than local coverage for your review. C.dunkin (talk) 02:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete fails nbox since long established that junior competitions dont carry anything like the same weight as senior. Considering carefully the coverage presented thus far in respect gng, I would have to conclude it is a little bit too soon for this up and coming young boxer, albeit that he is clearly heavily promoted. --nonsense ferret  21:24, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If he's "clearly heavily promoted" isn't that part of the point we are discussing WP:GNG ? This shouldn’t be a case of WP:TOOSOON due to the many reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Many people from various media outlets/platforms have followed and documented the success/failures and stories of his young lifelong commitment to his sport.C.dunkin (talk) 02:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

<ol>
 * Keep, passes WP:N In addition to the many reliable articles mentioned by Cunard I have included some others that have not been mentioned as a source here or at the  Ryan Martin (Boxer) page.
 * <li> The article notes: "There is always a large sea of prospects in boxing, but there are those that stand out and separate themselves from the pack. Lightweight Ryan Martin (10-0, 6Kos) has been doing just that. The Chattanooga, TN native has been making noise in his 16 months as a professional and has been looking very impressive. Martin is currently signed to rapper and businessman 50 Cent's SMS Promotions. Although 2014 saw many fighters sitting on the sidelines waiting for a fight date, Martin was in the ring 8 times in 12 months. He fought on ESPN and major network undercards, including HBO and Showtime. Keeping busy and continuing to learn is top priority for Martin.Like most can't miss prospects, Martin seems to have the full package so far as a young professional. He's very talented, athletic, has fast hands, a precession-like jab and puts his punches together well. Ryan also has a decorated amateur career, which includes over 200 amateur wins and numerous National Championships and international experience."</li>
 * <li> The article notes: "Ryan Martin may arguably be the promotion’s flagship talent at the moment, with a push for champ in the works. Ryan Martin signed with the promotion in late 2013 and most recently took down Justin Robbins at the Chatman – Brewer fight on March 28th with a stunning second round knockout, bringing his record to 4-0 with three knockouts. An impressive step in a promising career."</li>
 * <li> The article notes: "In this interview, lightweight Ryan Martin (5-0, 3 KOs) discusses sparring with Yuriorkis Gamboa, meeting Mike Tyson for the first time, and his plans for the future."</li>
 * <li> The article notes: Walking through New York City on Wednesday and just happened to meet up with Rosie Perez on 45th & 9th as she was waiting for a cab. Now I had never met Rosie, but I felt like I knew Rosie…at least well enough to say hi. Because we have a common friend in Ryan ‘Blue Chip‘ Martin. Rosie is a big boxing fan and she’s been at a couple of Ryan’s fights since he turned pro last year. Now for those of you who don’t know Ryan yet…he’s special. It’s always fun to draw comparisons to past greats, but perhaps in Ryan’s case it’s best to just let him ‘tell his own story’ </li>
 * ,C.dunkin (talk) 02:31, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

</ol>
 * It is not clear at all that these sources contribute much at all to the case for notability, I have concerns about the significance, independence and reliability of these - one in particular seems to be from a company that is selling merchandise on the boxer's behalf. --nonsense ferret  22:20, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * People reading and editing this page can check that this information comes from many non-self published reliable sources. Subject page has no original research and all information is verifiable. There's a plethora of sources from top boxing websites, magazines, newspapers, and other web-like organizations addressing the subject directly and in detail. The one source you question can be used for additional information because the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim. However, we know the article is certainly not based primarily on such source. I only mentioned it in this discussion. C.dunkin (talk) 02:44, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete Doesn't meet WP:NBOX and I don't think there's quite enough significant independent coverage to meet GNG. Yes he's being heavily promoted, but that's not independent coverage.204.126.132.231 (talk) 21:09, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * ""Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material."

- General notability guideline C.dunkin (talk) 02:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.