Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S8UL Esports


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

S8UL Esports

 * – ( View AfD View log )

No indication of notability; they do not appear to have won any major tournaments. ... disco spinster   talk  15:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ...  disco spinster   talk  15:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. 2A01:4C8:A1:F08E:69AA:AD25:80F8:B9C5 (talk) 13:16, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * S8UL Esports is arguably India's biggest and most popular eSports organization. It was one of the first big Esports organization that got very popular. It's fanbase is the biggest in Indian eSports scenario.


 * The combined subscribers count (on YouTube) of its content-creators is far more than any other eSports organization in the country, with several of them having a subscriber count of more than a million.


 * Team 8-Bit, of the two founding members of the S8UL, is the first Indian team to win a international tournament.


 * Team SouL too has competed in several international tournaments.


 * As for team S8UL, the game PUBG Mobile was banned for the period September 2020-July 2021 and then was relaunched back as a different game (Battlegrounds Mobile India), so there hasn't been any official tournament, not domestic neither international, for the game. Aaditya.abh (talk) 16:39, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * None of that has any real bearing on notability in the Wikipedia sense. You need to explain how they meet the WP:GNG - that's the general standard as to if something should have its own article. Sergecross73   msg me  13:28, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Arguments supporting notability:
 * "Significant Coverage:" The page includes a wide range of information, such as hitsory as to formation, it's current eSports division, former Division, it's content creation information as this organisation is very prominent in content creation. The page also includes information for its management.


 * "Reliable Sources:" The sources provided on the page are reliable. All of the sources provided are reputed websites providing Esports and wide variety of general news.


 * "Independent of the subject:" Every piece of information seen on page are independent of the subject matter, i.e., S8UL Esports. No info on the page includes anything advertised by or affiliated to s8ul eSports.


 * "Presumed:" Everything provided here is information not presumed facts. Also, for each section of the page, there is not much detailed information available to have it's own separate page.
 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 13:41, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * One more thing, the india professional eSports organization, Stalwart Esports, which is a much smaller and lesser-known, and also lesser successful than S8UL, still that organization has a notable page on Wikipedia. S8UL is a very big thing in India. This organization is credited with practically making Esports popular in the country.
 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 13:46, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean, you'll have to be more specific than that with the sourcing. A five second glance is all it takes to counter the argument that all the sources are reliable. "Call of Duty Wiki" is absolutely not a reliable source per WP:USERG. I'm going to do my own research and wait for some more experienced editors to weigh in before I do. I'm not particularly convinced yet. I've never heard of any of these sources... Sergecross73   msg me  15:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * So, against Liqupedia wiki of the respective games, better - more reliable sources are needed? On it.


 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 15:44, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , Hey Aaditya, Wikipedia doesn't run on popularity. It required secondary reliable sources and, At this point all the references in the article aren't Reliable at all. I Don't think this page at this version is eligible for a wikipedia article. Moreover, you seem to have a COI with S8ul and need to disclose the COI with S8UL on your page, go through the relevant WP Policies. Warm Regards--- Abhay Esports  Talk To Me  15:54, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * 1. I was providing reliable citations/sources on the page as you sent this message.
 * 2. I don't have any COI with S8UL. I was just scrolling through different eSports related pages on Wikipedia and then I discovered that there wasn't any Esports page of S8UL.
 * I have interests in Esports and tech, and that is probably the reason I may sound so passionate.
 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 16:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Sir, i have removed the Call of Duty wiki sources and added more reliable sources. As to said, no sources are reliable, I believe a large proportion of sources link to Sportskeeda, a very reliable (that's for you to determine) source that provides news regarding a lot of sports, including Esports, news.
 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 16:34, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , Again aaditya, Sportskeeda isn;t considered as a reliable source here on wikipedia and that's the problem, i understand your situation. But you need to have Reliable & Independent Sources. Warm Regards--- Abhay Esports  Talk To Me  19:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * , first of all thank you sir for understanding my situation here. Secondly, reliable sources as in news by prominent news outlets? Please provide some information as to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaditya.abh (talk • contribs)
 * Until you understand how to identify reliable sources yourself, you can look at WP:VG/S for a large list of video game industry-related sources that are considered reliable or unreliable. Sergecross73   msg me  12:47, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you User:Sergecross73. I am sure going to look it up. Aaditya.abh (talk) 14:25, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a response to "Arguments supporting notability" above. "Significant coverage" is not about how well the Wikipedia article covers the subject. It is a requirement that the sources have provided significant coverage of the topic. Have another look at WP:GNG which explains "significant", as well as "presumed" which you also seem to have misunderstood. --bonadea contributions talk 11:24, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll make sure to go through it. Aaditya.abh (talk) 18:26, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I have initiated a discussion regarding having "AFK Gaming" as a reliable source for video games. I believe that website to be reliable.
 * You can check the discussion and my arguments on the talk page.
 * Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources


 * Aaditya.abh (talk) 04:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - a review of the sources make be believe that the sourcing is either unreliable, not significant coverage of the subject itself, or both. Sergecross73   msg me  18:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seddon talk 23:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article author is currently attempting canvassing and sneaking AFK Gaming into the list of reliable VG sources despite the discussion leaning unreliable. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 06:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for catching that. I've warned the editor that it was inappropriate for them to be doing that. They removed my comment without responding. I'm getting the vibe they're getting desperate and trying more underhanded methods since they seem to be failing to garner a legitimate consensus in their favor, both here and there. Sergecross73   msg me  12:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per Sergecross's comments. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 06:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fails WP:GNG | No reliable seondary sources are found for now. All sources are closely connected either with the sujcet or the industry. May be, in future it will reach the mark like Team SoloMid--Iamrajdeepdas (talk) 09:17, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: AFK Gaming is a good and independent source in my point of view and it's already being used in multiple Wikipedia articles for stats counter, fact checking,  date checking  etc purposes. Iamrajdeepdas (talk) 09:17, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:OSE. Just because it's used in other articles doesn't make it reliable. That's not a valid reason, nor is it even a plausible method even conceptually. If we allowed that sort of reasoning, people could rationalize using any source just by adding it in other article and then saying "look it's being used there, so we can use it here now too". Sergecross73   msg me  12:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I totally got your point already. Iamrajdeepdas (talk) 13:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Completely understood. Aaditya.abh (talk) 14:13, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I have copied the page to my 3rd Sandbox to finalize it with all correct sources and everything. Is there any problem with that?
 * No, that's fine, as long as you don't attempt to to publish it prematurely again. Sergecross73   msg me  02:33, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * User:Sergecross73 Thank you. I have no further arguments. And I will only publish the page again if and when I have sufficient "reliable" sources to back the facts. Aaditya.abh (talk) 04:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:NCORP and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 02:46, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.