Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SEF tram stop


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000(talk) 20:09, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

SEF tram stop

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Unsourced article about a non-notable tram stop. Fails WP:GNG. - MrX 13:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Neutral for the moment. If it is a station, not just a pole on the side of the road, it might be notable, but I would expect to see references.Deb (talk) 12:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment. The same editor created a new article, now at Asklipiio Voulas tram stop, including the AfD template from this one, so the "this article's discussion" link there also points here. It might make sense to consider them together, but it should be officially noted that this is being done (and care should be taken by the closer to get the template there too). Or else that template should be removed. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename Peace and Friendship station - Not only is it an actual station, but quite a substantial one. See photo here.  This is a light rail station very much the same way Sierra Madre Villa (Los Angeles Metro station) and Etihad Campus Metrolink station are, but with busier traffic than the former as it seems and it serves a major stadium like the latter.  Rail stations are always kept per WP:OUTCOMES and it's impossible for such a station to exist without very extensive government sources (studies, reports, statistics, etc.) existing.  Also this is a case of WP:BITE as the nom has been AfD-ing almost every new station article created by a new user within a few days of article creations.--Oakshade (talk) 05:26, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:42, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete, I agree with the nominator non notable station. Specifically must pass WP:ORG in my opinion that states "notability is not inherent". Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:15, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, what? Since when does a train station have to pass WP:ORG? - The Bushranger One ping only 16:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep both for now and rename SEF tram stop. Both are more than just stops, they each have significant infrastructure. It is likely that with careful searching in Greek that adequate sources can be found and, to avoid systemic bias, sufficient time for such research should be allowed. The Whispering Wind (talk) 13:25, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - I have now corrected the coordinates for this so that people can see what we are talking about. Somebody else please fix the other one, because I don't know where it is. They are messed up articles! Sw2nd (talk) 13:44, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It is now at Asklipiio Voulas tram stop. The Whispering Wind (talk) 13:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What did you do? There is no tram stop at those coordinates! Sw2nd (talk) 14:11, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I am talking about the actual location of the tram stop on the ground, not the Wikipedia article. That is why I corrected the coordinates. Do you know where it is? Even an intersection! Anything!!! Sw2nd (talk) 14:17, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the hot weather has addled my brain and I misunderstood your request. If you do a search for Ασκληπιείο Βούλας in Google Maps Greece then the tram stop is there. The Whispering Wind (talk) 14:49, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Why me? Could you not fix the wrong coordinates, if you know where it is? I've done it, but it's you that wants to keep the articles. Sw2nd (talk) 17:24, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - Nobody really gives a damn about these crappy articles - or they would fix them. I've tried! Sw2nd (talk) 17:24, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice WP:IDONTLIKEIT/WP:NOBODYREADSIT combo. It's a brand new article.  I've created many station articles and made a ton of improvements to existing ones as do hundreds of editors have done over the years. --Oakshade (talk) 18:22, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What you say above is an incorrect interpretetaion of my point of view. I will work with people, but I am just pissed off. Editors who dump and leave, should have their crap flushed away. I congratulate you as being the one other person who has tried to improve SEF tram stop. You know I have worked to improve both of these articles. Now look at Asklipiio Voulas tram stop! Sw2nd (talk) 18:59, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:NOEFFORT. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly! WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Do something to help!!! Sw2nd (talk) 13:31, 5 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep and rename as per Oakshade. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 12:29, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:11, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete as lacking in depth coverage in reliable sources as required by the WP:GNG. If such sources get added to the article, feel free to ping my talk page. Stuartyeates (talk) 04:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It's impossible for such a major project to exist without the existence of heavy government sources on proposals, environmental reports, budget reports and other studies. All sources are in Greek.  Such a station would never be considered for deletion if it was in the US or UK.  Is this a case of systemic bias?  --Oakshade (talk) 01:59, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * None of "government sources on proposals, environmental reports, budget reports and other studies" count as a reliable independent source as per WP:GNG. As for the OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument; they should be considered for deletion. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Direct quote from WP:GNG as definition of sources to establish notability:
 * "Including but not limited to newspapers, books and e-books, magazines, television and radio documentaries, reports by government agencies, and academic journals. In the absence of multiple sources, it must be possible to verify that the source reflects a neutral point of view, is credible and provides sufficient detail for a comprehensive article."
 * Emphasis mine. To say that this station can't have government sources as establishing notability just because a government agency played a part in the planning and construction of this is silly Wikilawyering game playing. --Oakshade (talk) 02:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Direct quote from WP:GNG as definition of sources to establish notability:
 * ""Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject or its creator."
 * To say that this station can have government sources to establishing notability when a government agency played a part in the planning and construction of this is silly Wikilawyering game playing. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:59, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Again you're just playing WP:LAWYER cherrypicking a phrase whilst ignoring everything else and the spirit of the guideline. See WP:GAMETYPE.  If you truly that government sources aren't allowed, then AfD Etihad Campus Metrolink station which has only government sources.  I know you won't do it as more people are watching there and that will be a quick "Keep".--Oakshade (talk) 03:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll not be AfDing Etihad Campus Metrolink station because to AfD something against consensus would be WP:POINTy. That don't mean to say I think the article should be kept. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That is honorable.--Oakshade (talk) 19:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep per Oakshade and The Whispering Wind. Remember that WP:V only requires (barring WP:BLPs) that sources exist; they are not requred to be in the article at all, or to be easily accessable, or in English. I agree that this seems very much a case of WP:BIAS, and some of the delete !votes above fell out of the WP:ATA tree and hit every branch on the way down. - The Bushranger One ping only 16:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.