Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SMK Sultan Yussuf


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 07:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

SMK Sultan Yussuf

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Contested PROD. The subject fails the notability guidelines of WP:ORG, and I found no sources on Google other than self-published sources. The article also fails to cite any references other than the school's own website. Inks.LWC (talk) 18:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —Inks.LWC (talk) 18:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  —Inks.LWC (talk) 18:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malaysia-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 18:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - we keep high schools for the reasoning given in the essay WP:NHS. Malaysian schools traditionally have a poor Internet presence and a dearth of Google sources does not mean that reliable sources don't exist. We need to await the result of local searches to avoid systemic bias. Such articles need improving not deleting thus is the way we build the encyclopaedia. TerriersFan (talk) 19:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - However, WP:SCHOOL, which says that WP:ORG must be met for schools does trump WP:NHS. High schools are not automatically kept just because of WP:NHS Inks.LWC (talk) 19:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually the consensus at every AfD discussion about a high school in the last few years has been that high school articles are kept for the reasons stated in WP:NHS. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then perhaps you should nominate WP:NHS to become a policy and more than just an essay. Until then, WP:ORG trumps WP:NHS. Inks.LWC (talk) 02:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:ORG is just a guideline developed to avoid articles on inconsequential organisations such as my local Indian restaurant (a very fine restaurant I would add) that have no wider significance. High schools OTOH invariably have wide impact in their regions in addition to their impact on thousands of their students. Experience shows that given time, plenty enough reliable sources can be found. However, in contrast to anglophone high schools, and despite what is said below, reliable sources on the Internet on Malay schools are sadly sparse and local searches are needed. Be that as it may, I have added enough sources to meet WP:GNG. TerriersFan (talk) 23:19, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete I fully agree with Inks.LWC's views about the notability of schools generally. In this case there are some independent sources (eg this) but they do not amount to the significant coverage that ought to be required of all articles on this project, school or not. The notion that Malaysian schools "traditionally" don't get coverage on the internet is complete bullshit: I say that as someone who has created over 100 Malaysian articles and knows that just about every single Malaysian newspaper -- both current and archived articles -- is freely accessible online. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:06, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - putting on one side the tone of this comment, there is a world of difference between Malaysian newspapers being online, and them choosing to put their coverage of schools online. TerriersFan (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What on earth would cause you to think that? They think their coverage of schools is specially valuable and shouldn't be freely available? As I said, most newspapers (including The Star and Utusan dump everything they write online. You're just making it all up, aren't you? --Mkativerata (talk) 20:54, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Please provide your source for the statement:
 * "They think their coverage of schools is specially valuable and shouldn't be freely available? As I said, most newspapers (including The Star and Utusan dump everything they write online."
 * It would also assist if you familiarise yourself with WP:AGF. TerriersFan (talk) 22:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Yeah, it's an article about a high school. It also doesn't even attempt to establish notability beyond that, and my search (FWIW, I'm very familiar with East Asian and Southeast Asian topics, and Mkativerata is right to call bullshit above) didn't turn up anything beyond Mkativerata's.  Schools are organizations; I think they have to demonstrate why they're notable as well.  Because this one can't be redirected to a school district or town, it should be deleted. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 01:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - " Because this one can't be redirected to a school district or town," is incorrect since redirection to Batu Gajah, where it is already mentioned, is obviously an option. In my experience (which is extensive) of high schools is that they invariably attract attention in reliable sources unless Malaysia is an exception? TerriersFan (talk) 01:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * By that logic, we could then redirect St. Luke's School (Connecticut) to New Canaan on the basis that it's there; however, it's a private school (and secular, the name is somewhat misleading), so that wouldn't really make sense. It's not affiliated with the town, it just happens to be there.  The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 01:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It is common practice to redirect not only those schools that are individually non-notable to their settlement but also parks, significant buildings and all sorts of other features. If this is not considered suitable for Malay schools please suggest another way of organising information about them? TerriersFan (talk) 02:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per the long-standing consensus that we keep articles on verifiable high schools, as documented at WP:OUTCOMES and for the reasons explained at WP:NHS. If that consensus is to be challenged then I would suggest that challenge should first be made in discussions of articles about schools in Western anglophone countries, to avoid giving the impression that any systemic bias is involved. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep – government secondary schools matter and are significant subjects worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. This one also meets WP:GNG. Rothorpe (talk) 22:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, it says it's a school; WP:Notability (high schools) is an essay and WP:Notability (schools) is a failed attempt at a guideline, whereas WP:ORG is not; as I said above, it doesn't even attempt to establish anything beyond the fact that it exists and is a school. Organizations have to receive significant secondary coverage to be included here; there is none in this case.  If it were a public school, we could simply redirect it to the town's article, but since it's not affiliated with any town or significant organization that option doesn't exist.  Ergo it should be deleted. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 02:12, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Why does this article need to be deleted? This school does really exist. The current Sultan of Perak was attended this school during his childhood. User:60.50.212.115 put this comment on the talk page. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC) — 60.50.212.115 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I don't know why does this article need to be deleted. This school does exist for real and it is one of the oldest school in Malaysia. Plus, it is also the pride of Batu Gajah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylarius (talk • contribs) 10:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)  Comment copied from talk page. TerriersFan (talk) 13:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:ITEXISTS and WP:ILIKEIT for further explanation. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 02:09, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - The school is loacated in Batu Gajah, Perak and it is very significant to the town. It was found in 1907 and sure it is historical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylarius (talk • contribs) 08:23, 23 June 2011 (UTC)  Copied from talk page. TerriersFan (talk) 11:17, 23 June 2011 (UTC) — Sylarius (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep - a significant school on which we should have a page. The article needs to be developed further but for now meets WP:ORG. Bridgeplayer (talk) 17:12, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep per improvements by TerriersFan which now meet WP:GNG. Kudos to TerriersFan for their research.--v/r - TP 20:49, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.