Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sadia Sadia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Even after excluding the contributions by socks the subsequent discussion seems to cement on a meeting of criteria 4 of WP:NARTIST based on works in permanent collections at ACMI and QVMAG along with contributions to an ARIA nominated album Seddon talk 23:14, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Sadia Sadia

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Neither WP:BIO or WP:ARTIST appear to be met. The only really independent coverage is a tiny bit in She Bop II, with the other sources being primar or user-generated. SmartSE (talk) 13:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. SmartSE (talk) 13:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong keep She was featured in She Bop II for god sake, definetly keep. E123765 (talk) 15:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC) — E123765 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.  blocked as a sock. See Sockpuppet_investigations/Omniscientmoose42
 * Comment what is She Bop II? I think I'll vote delete, but I wanna know what She Bop II is first. Omniscientmoose42 (talk) 15:29, 25 August 2021 (UTC) blocked as a sock. See Sockpuppet_investigations/Omniscientmoose42
 * , a book, She Bop II: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop and Soul by Lucy O’Brien. Before voting delete, perhaps check the sources? Vexations (talk) 16:39, 25 August 2021 (UTC)


 * As mentioned in the nomination, the coverage in that book is minor (about half a page). If there were multiple books providing similar coverage, it might just be enough to satisfy BIO, but that level of coverage in one book is definitely insufficient. SmartSE (talk) 17:02, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:38, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:38, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:38, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Strong keep Being mentioned in She Bop II is no small feat. ScottishSheep74 (talk) 22:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC) ScottishSheep74 (talk&#32;• contribs) is a vandalism-only account up for a block   Struck duplicate entry by a sock
 * Delete - This seems like a case of WP:TOOSOON. No independent coverage, an unimportant award (Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts). The artist's apparent website has a news page, but nothing on there looks reliable. I don't see anything in their publications or academic response that would meet WP:NACADEMIC. Suriname0 (talk) 04:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment user:E123765, user:Omniscientmoose42 and user:ScottishSheep74 are all the same user. See Sockpuppet_investigations/Omniscientmoose42 Meters (talk) 18:26, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep for now. What makes an artist notable is not press. I have a very reluctant internet connection so can't look at this closely for a few days, but would like to. Please hold a decision. Littleolive oil (talk) 01:18, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seddon talk 23:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: @Littleolive oil has not given a reason for keeping. Do you have one? Geschichte (talk) 08:47, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: I am the subject of this page and most of this is easily fixable [apparently WP:BIO does sometimes welcome contributions from subjects although I have dared not go near wiki for fear of getting caught up in exactly what is happening now]. Please read the talk page comments, followed by the improved article with the corrected and additional updated links. For WP:MUSIC I would hope I pass for "gold album in at least one country" and WP:FILM, "selected preservation in a national museum" and/or "included in history of cinema programme." I appreciate that editing for a multi-disciplinary artist is difficult. This article can be improved, please give the article time to work its way through the ‘request for edit’ queue. Thanks.GreenForestRanger (talk) 13:40, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , it might be easier to list two or three sources that provide in-depth coverage so can we see if the WP:GNG is met. I see almost 100 sources listed in the article and its talk page, and have read all of them, but I struggle to see significant coverage. I do see some indications that WP:NARTIST might be met. Vexations (talk) 15:47, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment. It would be good for someone from WP:VISUALARTS with a cross-disciplinary arts background to weigh in on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreenForestRanger (talk • contribs) 18:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , this discussion is listed at WikiProject_Visual_arts/Article_alerts For what it' is worth; while I am not listed as a participant of that Wikiproject, I do have a "cross-disciplinary arts background". I have access to a fair number of arts publications either through the Wikipedia Library, a university or subscriptions to periodicals. Despite that, and reading every single source ever listed in the artcile under discussion, I have not been able to find the best indication or notability: significant coverage in several independent, reliable sources. I'm hoping that if such coverage exists, you might be able to point us to it. If it doesn't, then please just say so because in that case, we can focus on other ways of establishing notability, like museum collections. Vexations (talk) 19:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comment. I'm surprised that you don't find the citations independent and reliable, or the body of the coverage taken in its entirety as significant. IMDB requires third-party verification, Jaxsta is drawn from record company metadata, musicbrainz contains the attribution codes. I think I've provided the link to the Accession Numbers for ACMI's permanent collection as well as the footage of Federation Square, Melbourne and the QVMAG permanent collection accession numbers. If what you are looking for is press, there is some but I have been struggling with it as, for example, major articles were published prior to digital archiving. Even The Australian, Dec 8th 2004 ‘Screening the Truth’ is only archived as a title in the Wayback Machine, but not the entirety of the article. Studio Sound, ‘Winning Women In The Industry’, November 1990,  Studio Magazine,‘Frills and Spools’, December 1990,  Audio Media, ‘The Female Touch’, February 1991, The Independent,‘Cutting Through Tape’, Oct.1991, The Mix,‘Fiddling the Meter’, November 1994, BBC Radio 1, Women’s Hour ‘The Glass Ceiling’, TX November 1995, Opus, ‘Sadia: the Equa Project’, October 1996 - none of these are archived. Even Music Week, ‘In The Studio: TUC United Against Racism ‘RESPECT’ June 1996 only digitally archives as far back as 1999. I am frustrated by this and if you can suggest some way around it, or some online resource, that would be great. Some of this surrounds my work as a woman record producer in the late 1970's and 1980's, when there were almost no women in positions of authority in studio control rooms as record producers. The journey from there to working as an installation artist with work in at least one significant permanent collection [ACMI [] is detailed here [].GreenForestRanger (talk) 20:24, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , it shouldn't surprise you that I do not consider IMDB unreliable; IMDB explains it. As for older sources; articles have been indexed before the internet archive, and while they may not be easy to access, there is no policy that says sources need to be available online, they just need to be published. I'm getting some hits on ProQuest, and I have found the article by Lawrie Zion in the Australian with EBSCO (Lawrie Zion. “Screening the Truth.” Australian, The. EBSCOhost, https://search-ebscohost-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/login.aspx?direct=true&db=bwh&AN=200412081014587991&site=ehost-live. Accessed 7 Sept. 2021.),  available via the Wikipedia Library. I should note that Zion's article doesn't appear to mention you, so that does not help. Vexations (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * “Screening the Truth” should do since the primary image occupying most of the space above the fold is mine. I have a photograph but not a scan. The Talk Page article's references has links to Brill (VSAC, Art & Perception) and ISEA. Here's a few more, with apologies for any duplications: ‘A new era of recognition and voice has begun for QVMAG and the community’, The Sunday Examiner, August 29th 2021; Redmond, S and Verhagen, D (eds) ‘Ghosts of Noise’. In ‘The Model Citizen’. Melbourne: RMIT Gallery 2019; ‘Sadia Sadia - In Conversation with Evelyn Tsitas’, RMIT Gallery, Melbourne, Australia, March 2019; Australian Arts Review, ‘The Model Citizen’, February 5th 2019; Sadia, S "Ghosts of Noise' in Bidhan Jacobs 'Déjouer l’entropie', 'Les Devenirs Artistiques de L’Information', Sorbonne Paris June 10th & 11th 2015, co-sponsored by Le Bauhaus-Universität Weimar & Internationales Kolleg für Kulturtechnikforschung und Medienphilosophie (IKKM), the Birmingham Center for Media and Cultural Research, and ELICO Equipe de recherche de Lyon; The Examiner, ‘Sadia Gains A Sound View of Tasmania’ Jan. 2014; Artabase, 'Metamorphoses in 'A' Minor: Sadia Sadia in conversation with Amita Kirpalani', Sept. 2009; Contemporary Visual Arts and Culture, ’Proof’ March-May 2005; Herald Sun ‘Keeping Eyes on the Truth’, December 2004; 'Proof: The Act of Seeing With One’s Own Eyes', Stubbs, Mike (Editor). ACMI. Melbourne:Australia 2004; Herald Sun, ‘Melting Pot of Sound’, Oct. ‘96; The West Australian, ‘Tropical Heartbeat Meets Technology’, Sept. ’96; Opus, ‘Sadia: the Equa Project’, Oct.96; Rolling Stone (Aus), ‘Equa’, December 1996; Music Week, ‘In The Studio: TUC United Against Racism ‘RESPECT’ June 1996; 'She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop, and Soul', O’Brien, Lucy, London:Penguin 1995, 2006; BBC Radio 1,‘The Glass Ceiling, TX November 1995; The MIX,‘Fiddling the Meter’, November 1994; Recording Musician,‘Production Lines’, August 1992; The Independent,‘Cutting Through Tape’, Oct.1991; BBC Radio 4, Women’s Hour, TX April 24, 1991; Audio Media, ‘The Female Touch’, February 1991; Studio Magazine,‘Frills and Spools’, Dec. 1990; Studio Sound, ‘Winning Women In The Industry’, November 1990.GreenForestRanger (talk) 21:56, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , that's too much for me to try to look up. All we need is two, maybe three articles that are more like (and I know this is not a great example, but I happened to be reading Salle's article on Janet Malcolm and this was the first profile I could think of) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1994/07/11/forty-one-false-starts That's in-depth, significant coverage of a notable subject in an independent, reliable source. Can you name two? Vexations (talk) 22:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm usually interviewed to talk about my installation work in context although the Evelyn Tsitas interview above is a good one. So the arts references are either contained above or in the Talk Page's article references, with the exception of ‘A new era of recognition and voice has begun for QVMAG and the community’, The Sunday Examiner, August 29th 2021 which just opened and includes the permanent installation of my 'All Time and Space Fold Into the Infinite Present (Cataract Gorge)' in its three video channel, sixteen audio channel, forty-five foot iteration in Gallery Eight at Royal Park. There's more 'profile' material as a music producer esp the 'woman in a man's world'. I'm trying to remember which of these were good interviews. I'd say Recording Musician,‘Production Lines’, August 1992, is good; Music Week, ‘In The Studio: TUC United Against Racism ‘RESPECT’ June 1996 was a good profile of me at work on a big project in Metropolis Studio A (London)and is the major music industry pub in the UK; Audio Media, ‘The Female Touch’, February 1991; The Mix,‘Fiddling the Meter’, November 1994; Herald Sun, ‘Melting Pot of Sound’, October 1996 was a good interview around 'Equa'; as was The West Australian, ‘Tropical Heartbeat Meets Technology’, September 1996 (I did seventy-six interviews for the Equa (Polygram) project over a week in Melbourne and Sydney in 1996, I'm trying to remember which were the good profiles); there's The Independent,‘Cutting Through Tape’, Oct.1991 maybe. There's a lot of it but not The New Yorker :) It's nice that you're taking such an interest, if nothing else I shall go to sleep thinking that another person has been introduced to my work. À demain.GreenForestRanger (talk) 23:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * To conclude my thought from last night, as you've jogged my memory: In 1996 I produced an album called 'Equa'[] for Mercury Records (AUS) which was part of Polygram Australia and now Universal. The single off the album was 'Departure', which went into heavy rotation on Triple JJJ [], the national Australian radio station and part of the ABC Australian Broadcasting Corporation. There was second single 'Samayah' did the same. I think that "11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network" is notability criteria for WP:MUSIC so there might be one to add there (along with 'has won or been nominated for a major award', see below). Polygram flew me from London to Sydney on the Sunday and for the duration of the next four and half days - three in Sydney and one and a half in Melbourne - I did on average seventeen interviews a day - one every half hour - mostly press. Started to lose my voice on the third day. So challenging because you really want to give every interviewer something real and from the heart. So there's a lot of press out there from Australian sources around Sadia and the Equa project but I don't include them because I can't access them. Of course I went back to Melbourne in 2004 for the MIFF premiere of The Noon Gun and again in December when my single-channel work 'The Memory of Water (Part One)' was exhibited in 'Proof' and in rotation on a program loop on the external and internal screens at Federation Square, Melbourne, etc as discussed above. I think that's about it. WP:MUSIC I would hope I pass for "gold album in at least one country" and now as well for "has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network"- also 'has won or been nominated for a major award' (Equa[] - Cat# 1743842 ℗ 1996 Mercury Records Pty. Ltd. was ARIA [][] nominated in 1997 - I forgot and have now included it with the précis and links, below) - and WP:FILM, "selected preservation in a national museum" and/or "included in history of cinema programme." If you can access print - as we've discussed above - much press arose in the 1980's and 1990's - in Australian and UK newspapers and magazines - but I've not included print material I can't access but maybe somebody else can. I've included the digitised references I could find on the Talk Page. But I think it's going to have to be taken collectively as a body of work. If there's anything else that you feel might be important I'm happy to do my best to answer you  but I really do need to step away from this now. Thanks.GreenForestRanger (talk) 09:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment
 * Notability WP:MUSIC ‘gold and platinum albums’ 
 * David Wilcox Catalogue
 * Gold Certified - My Eyes Keep Me in Trouble - September 16, 1987 (Capitol, merged into EMI)
 * Gold Certified - Breakfast at the Circus - July 5, 1988 (EMI)
 * Platinum Certified - Breakfast at the Circus - May 31, 1993 (EMI)
 * Gold Certified - Over Sixty Minutes With - July 24, 1991 (EMI)
 * Platinum Certified - Over Sixty Minutes With - May 31, 1993 (EMI)
 * Gold Certified - The Best of David Wilcox - April 22, 1987 (Capitol, merged into EMI)
 * Platinum Certified - The Best of David Wilcox - December 18, 1989 (Capitol, merged into EMI)
 * Source Music Canada []
 * Notability WP:MUSIC "has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network”
 * ‘Departure’ and ’Samayah' from Equa[] - Cat# 1743842 ℗ 1996 Mercury Records Pty. Ltd. (Formerly Polygram Australia now Universal) were in heavy rotation on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation national radio station Triple JJJ[] in 1996.
 * Notability WP:MUSIC 'has won or been nominated for a major award'
 * Equa[] - Cat# 1743842 ℗ 1996 Mercury Records Pty. Ltd. was ARIA [][] nominated in 1997. GreenForestRanger (talk) 16:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * CommentHi GreenForestRanger, I know this can be a frustrating and confusing process. A few thoughts: based on your description above, I don't think you're likely to meet WP:NMUSIC, since it sounds like your activities were as a producer; see this discussion about producers. You may want to read WP:NARTISTS, in particular #4, which states "The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums." If we have reliable, independent sources that identify your work by name as being within a permanent collection, that could be relevant. (For comparison, note that this is an example of a source that does not mention you or your work by name, but it is independent, by-lined, and published by a reliable source.) As with Vexations, I'll repeat the request for 2 (or 3) sources that directly address you and your work in depth (see WP:THREE). The most likely path towards keeping this article is to provide sourcing that indicates you meet WP:GNG. If you can identify two by-lined articles, published by non-local publishers, that are independent from you and your employers and are not primarily interviews, that would be the most useful evidence for resolving this discussion.  Otherwise, I'd like to say that being "non-notable" in the eyes of Wikipedia is not an insult: the vast majority of authors, artists, academics, and people in general don't meet WP:GNG, and we can't WP:OVERCOME a lack of significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. Suriname0 (talk) 23:44, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Suriname0 Frustrating, yes! Partially because I have multiple times posted or included links to ACMI's own website and their internationally significant permanent collection - the collection metadata of which can be found here [] including my name, exhibition history and ACMI Identifier (accession ID). This links directly to the museum's online permanent collection records. I don't like to assume so here is ACMI on Wikipedia [] if you are unfamiliar with the institution. My activities in WP:NMUSIC were not only as a producer but also as a co-writer on almost all of the 'gold and platinum albums' catalogue (linked above) - verified here from record company metadata [] and as the artist (I am half of 'Equa' - goes to WP:MUSIC 'heavy rotation national radio' and 'won or been nominated for major award' as you will see under composer/lyricist here []). I can also send you the musicbrainz link with attribution codes if you like. You'll find my work in this article including images  ‘A new era of recognition and voice has begun for QVMAG and the community’, The Sunday Examiner, August 29th 2021 - apologies clearly I pointed at the wrong article for the permanent install in Gallery Eight [] as discussed above; the work was acquired by QVMAG through the Ralph Turner Bequest in 2014 and the Accession Number is QVM:2014:FDV:0001 (you can see the gallery label for the accession details here [] if you cannot find it online). For two by-lined articles, published by non-local publishers, that are independent and are not primarily interviews I would direct you to: Herald Sun, ‘Melting Pot of Sound’, October 1996 (Australia);  Herald Sun ‘Keeping Eyes on the Truth’, December 2004 (Australia); Contemporary Visual Arts and Culture, ’Proof’ March-May 2005 (the arts broadsheet); The West Australian, ‘Tropical Heartbeat Meets Technology’, September 1996; The Australian Arts Review (2019) [] (the headline images are also mine); Sadia, S. “Ghosts of Noise” and “What is a Model Citizen?”, in The Model Citizen, edited by Sean Redmond and Darrin Verhagen. Melbourne: RMIT Gallery, 2019; and 'Hartley, John, Steve Kurtz, Mike Stubbs, and Clare Pentecost. Proof: The Act of Seeing With One’s Own Eyes. Melbourne: ACMI Australian Centre for the Moving Image, 2004'. There is also Music Week, ‘In The Studio: TUC United Against Racism ‘RESPECT’ June 1996 (the major music industry pub in the UK). Thank you for your interest. PS. please check out the updated article on the Talk Page [] if you haven't already.

GreenForestRanger (talk) 01:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Please combine sources. "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability" [[[User:GreenForestRanger|GreenForestRanger]] (talk) 23:33, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment There is this article mentioning that her work was added to QVMAG's permanent collection: https://www.pressreader.com/australia/mercury-hobart-magazine/20210828/281668258064885 but WP:ARTISTS says represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums, and this is just one. This seems to be a case where a person is just shy of notability in several different areas, which unfortunately doesn't add up to GNG. Her musical group Equa seems like it might qualify for its own article, however - maybe that could be a compromise? Niftysquirrel (talk) 14:04, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't see anything in that article about Sadia or her work, but maybe I missed it? BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 19:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello and  My work forms part of the permanent collection at ACMI [] and the accession details are here []. It formed part of the major exhibition 'Proof: The Act of Seeing with One's Own Eyes' curated by Mike Stubbs. The QVMAG link should have been here ‘A new era of recognition and voice has begun for QVMAG and the community’, The Sunday Examiner, August 29th 2021. 'All Time and Space Fold Into the Infinite Present (Cataract Gorge)' (2014) was purchased with the Ralph Turner Bequest and permanently installed in Gallery Eight. The accession number is QVM:2014:FDV:0001 and can be found on the label copy here []. Please see the Talk Page [] for the updated and corrected article.GreenForestRanger (talk) 23:22, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's in the 11th paragraph. Niftysquirrel (talk) 00:15, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The 11th paragraph in the article you linked (Shaking Things Up) reads "And the gallery's other famous colonial artwork...". Are we talking about a different article here? BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @BubbaJoe123456 sorry, I apparently lost the ability to count (I was really tired, I guess?): 23rd paragraph, it starts with "Those new stories include works by..." Niftysquirrel (talk) 15:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Aha, found it! BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:26, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * CommentHello I've now managed to access the Lawrie Zion in the Australian which you found here with EBSCO (Lawrie Zion. “Screening the Truth.” Australian, The. EBSCOhost, https://search-ebscohost-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/login.aspx?direct=true&db=bwh&AN=200412081014587991&site=ehost-live. Accessed 7 Sept. 2021.). It does in fact discuss my work, which is 'The Memory of Water (Part One)'. In the print version it also features above the text an image of my work as an edge to edge spread. GreenForestRanger (talk) 11:33, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I get that it mentions a work that you made, but it doesn't mention you . Half a sentence is not significant coverage: ..., and The Memory of Water, an enigmatic installation strategically placed at the exhibition entrance that features several pairs of eyes gazing at us in a series of close-ups Sorry Vexations (talk) 11:44, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the archived version does not include the full spread image above the fold. I can't do anything about that unless you can find it. I have photos here but no scans.
 * I'm afraid that a photo would not make much of a difference. It's still just half a sentence. Vexations (talk) 12:02, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I have to step away from this again. You have music databases that go to me as an artist (Equa), songwriter, composer, lyricist and pioneering woman producer. My work forms part of the internationally significant permanent collection at ACMI - I have provided documentation of this multiple times - the most visited moving image museum in the world - (as well the recent acquisition and permanent install at QVMAG []) - and my films have been included in a history of cinema program at the most prestigious film institute in the world the Cinémathèque Française. I have provided documentation for all of this. I have press but I suspect the music press will more closely fit your requirements as published by non-local publishers, that are independent and are not primarily interviews - as it provides extensive coverage of my work as an artist(music) rather than an interviews with me as an individual. A selection is included in my reply to Suriname0 - and in the discussions above. There is little more that I can do! GreenForestRanger (talk) 12:15, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * "my films have been included in a history of cinema program at the most prestigious film institute in the world the Cinémathèque Française" Could you point me to the sourcing for this? The citation in the article just provides a link to the Cinémathèque Française homepage. Thanks. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 19:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi BubbaJoe123456 The link under the Cinémathèque link is the archived programme for the 'soirée exceptionelle' as part of the Cinéma d’Avant-Garde / Contre-Culture Générale. The film 'Lit From Within' is directed by me. I also directed 'San Francisco Redux No.1' (with Anthony Stern and SW Tayler). I contributed to three of the other films on programme as well (producer, editor, etc) but am only claiming the films I directed. The programme was curated by Nicole Brenez the noted film critic and curator for the experimental cinema programs at the Cinémathèque Française.  (‘San Francisco Redux No.1’ went on to be screened at Lussas ‘États Généraux du Film Documentaire’. It was most recently exhibited as part of ‘Breaking Convention’ at the University of Greenwich in August 2019 []GreenForestRanger (talk) 23:23, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, now I've found the link, and updated the article.BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 16:13, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * BubbaJoe123456 Thank you for your assistance, it's much appreciated.GreenForestRanger (talk) 16:44, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep. I think that GreenForestRanger has adequately produced evidence that her work meets criteria 4 of WP:NARTIST and given us the names of offline past publications toward meeting WP:SIGCOV. While more in-depth coverage that is easily viewable is desirable, I am willing to AGF in this case that information provided is accurate.4meter4 (talk) 19:59, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep is where I'm landing on this. There aren't any of the glaring notability indicators we in AfD tend to prefer, but I think that her inclusion in multiple notable galleries and exhibitions meets the criteria of WP:NARTIST #4. Niftysquirrel (talk) 00:43, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * CommentBubbaJoe123456 ‘acquired by Australian Centre for the Moving Image’. I do not see how it is possible for this to fail verification - this is the museum’s own catalogue of its permanent collection https://www.acmi.net.au/works/109650--the-memory-of-water-part-1/ . I have provided this discussion multiple times with this link to the ACMI collection metadata which includes my name, display history and ACMI Identifier (accession ID). I do not know if you are a member of WP:VISUALARTS but it is not possible to provide a more primary source than the institutions' own catalogue. This links directly to the museum's online permanent collection records. Please revert.GreenForestRanger (talk) 07:58, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The link in the article is just to "www.acmi.net.edu", which is the ACMI homepage, and didn't provide support for the claim. The link you provided above does support the claim, so I've changed the citation, and removed that template


 * CommentBubbaJoe123456 'It featured in the exhibition 'Proof: The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes'. Here is the catalogue citation with the ISBN number. Sadia, S 'The Memory of Water (Part One)' (2004) appears on pp 92-93.Hartley, John, Steve Kurtz, Mike Stubbs, and Clare Pentecost. Proof: The Act of Seeing With One’s Own Eyes . Melbourne: ACMI Australian Centre for the Moving Image, 2004, pp 92-93 ISBN: 9781920805104. Please revert. GreenForestRanger (talk) 08:59, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Again, the citations in the article didn't support the claim, that's why I tagged them as "failed verification". The neither the Artlink magazine article nor the ACMI link (checked the archived version) mention you or 'The Memory of Water'. I've added the catalog as a citation, and removed the other cites and the failed verification tag.BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:04, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * BubbaJoe123456 Thank you. I've noticed errors in the article - but I can't seem to access the source on the Talk Page article to correct it. I can delete everything or nothing - and edit the preface to the article but not the article itself - but deleting the whole thing would remove the COI. I don't know why it seems to be malfunctioning but it's been doing it for a while. So I can't fix it. I've tried to address some of the corrections here in the AfD discussion. It's frustrating. The material is out there but it's been a long time since I've looked at this. I also keep forgetting to include things (for example, I also produced The Fixx [] Then and Now, etc. - I think they were much bigger in the US than in the UK. Anyway, I seem to recall that years ago IMDB used to be considered a reliable source. Apparently now it is frowned upon but the "use of IMDb as an external link is generally considered appropriate' []. I'm not quite sure what this means.GreenForestRanger (talk) 16:32, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * IMDB generally isn't considered a reliable source, because the content there is heavily user-submitted, and there isn't much editor review. They also take stuff from sources like Wikipedia. The "use of IMDb as an external link is generally considered appropriate" comment refers to adding a link to an article subject's IMDb page in the external links section at the bottom, as I've done in the article.BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 17:25, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Comment: If this article is going to be destructively edited ('failed verification' for permanent collection when primary source has been provided, for example) while the AfD is ongoing, AGF it should be edited or reverted constructively as well:
 * Please revert ‘She also co-wrote many of the titles on these albums’. Please see the Jaxsta catalogue drawn from record company metadata which contains fifty-seven co-writing credits for the David Wilcox catalogue alone. []
 * Please revert 12 Aug 2021 "The Sydney Dance Company has two works in their permanent repertoire, 'Unwitting Sight' (1998) and 'Cradle Song' (2001) choreographed by Wakako Asano" was simply an incorrect URL.It is corrected it here and links to the Sydney Dance Company’s archived permanent repertoire."From 1998 to 2007 the Sydney Dance Company under the direction of Graeme Murphy [] held two works choreographed by Wakako Asano [] as part of their permanent repertoire, Unwitting Sight (1998) and Cradle Song (2001) [] with music by Sadia Sadia (Equa) []”
 * Please revert "Sadia began her career by becoming one of the first women in the world to be signed to a major label as a record producer" should read "During the 1990’s she sat as the only female member of the Directorate of REPRO (the British Record Producer’s Guild, now the MPG[]). In Lucy O’Brien (1996) She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop and Soul. Penguin. ISBN 978-0140251555 also in later editions pp. 449. ISBN 978-0-8264-3529-3.] and in press). GreenForestRanger (talk) 10:10, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment There is a long list of press cited in the discussion above. Please combine sources . "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability" []. The page does require updating, some of which I've tried to address on the Talk Page. I am always happy to discuss my work with friendly people (and would in fact greatly appreciate the assistance of a friendly admin from WP:MUSIC and WP:VISUALARTS for edits by the subject as per WP:BIO) but there are only so many hours in the day and right now it is difficult to AGF. Please review the substantial material provided in this AfD discussion as well as the article on the Talk Page [] (for context if nothing else). Thanks.GreenForestRanger (talk) 10:10, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: the works in permanent collections at ACMI and QVMAG pass for notability, and are supported by the other refs. Pam  D  07:51, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: Sources In among all the TLDNR, This is the British Council confirming that The Memory of Water is part of ACMI's permanent collection, and here QVMAG include All time and space ... in its choice of 13 images from their collection.  Pam  D  15:05, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Please let me know if any of these fail verification. I will post more as soon as I can.GreenForestRanger (talk) 13:17, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, meets WP:NARTIST by work held by QVMAG and ACMI, taking part in exhibitions at RMIT Gallery, ACMI, contributions (concept, writer, producer) to Equa, an ARIA nominated album. Coolabahapple (talk) 08:59, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Hi BubbaJoe123456 WP:VISUALARTS please find enclosed updated or corrected citations to improve the article. Thanks please remove unreliable source tags as applicable The citation for 'Ghosts of Noise' (para 4 under 'Installations', ref [20]) is here: [] (Pg 45) The title pages and intro also confirm the participants. the citation for The End of the Party: Hyde Park 1969 (ref [6]) from The British Council Films is here (edited and produced as 'Chimera Arts' on the right hand side of the page) [] the citation for Iggy The Eskimo Girl (ref [7])(edited and produced as 'Chimera Arts' on the right hand side of the page)[] this might also bring depth [] The The British Council Films citation for San Francisco Redux No.1 (ref [8]) is here [] ((director, editor, sound design and producer as 'Chimera Arts' on the right hand side of the page I cannot find any sources for ' Lit From Within: The Film and Glass Works of Anthony Stern' ref [10]. It is a minor work. Please remove.
 * The British Council Films citations all include my studio address as Real World. Please revert "Sadia is based at Real World Studios [][][] in Box, Wiltshire". (Real World is a major creative center with relevance to artistic practice - the British Council Films site cites this address on every entry and photographic evidence can be found here [] by scrolling to '2013')
 * in the interests of fairness Please undelete the Sydney Dance Company ref which has now been corrected: "From 1998 to 2007 the Sydney Dance Company under the direction of Graeme Murphy [] held two works choreographed by Wakako Asano [] as part of their permanent repertoire, Unwitting Sight (1998) and Cradle Song (2001) [] with music by Sadia Sadia (Equa) []” Please add In 2019 'Ghosts of Noise' [][] was exhibited as a four-channel video and eight channel audio installation in 'The Model Citizen’ [][] at the RMIT Gallery [], Melbourne, curated by Sean Redmond and Darrin Verhagen []. Please undelete "Sadia began her career by becoming one of the first women in the world to be signed to a major label as a record producer" which has been updated "During the 1990’s she sat as the only female member of the Directorate of REPRO (the British Record Producer’s Guild, now the MPG[]). In Lucy O’Brien (1996) She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop and Soul. Penguin. ISBN 978-0140251555 also in later editions pp. 449. ISBN 978-0-8264-3529-3, as well as in press. (this goes to the history of women in record production)
 * Comment WP:VISUALARTS I have also updated and corrected this entry: "In 2009 Sadia was awarded a Studio 18 [] artists' residency at Gertrude Contemporary [], Melbourne, for international "contemporary visual artists pursuing an innovative practice in a professional capacity”. During this time she produced her three channel work ‘Metamorphoses in ‘A’ Minor’ [][] with the support of the British Council (Aus) and Kennedy, Miller, Mitchell [] at their motion capture stage at Sydney Gate, Sydney, Australia. It most recently screened at Sarah Lawrence 3rd Annual Dancefilm Festival at the Heimbold Visual Arts Center [] in 2018." GreenForestRanger (talk) 13:59, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.